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This has been a pretty interesting thread to read. I love the Demon Dex, seems to allow people to run some pretty crazy builds. I ran Wordbearers in the old Dex and it is nice to see these demons getting their rules back. SLD in the CSM dex make me sad sometimes.

That aside I wonder if you would be willing to post a sample of your Nurgle Khorne lists Mentat. I have been building a Mono Nurgle tally list but just traded for 20 Bloodletters and a Bloodcrusher so I might be tempted to run a dual god list as well.

Thanks in advance

Gub
 

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ive read about half this thread and havin been play 40k for over 10 yrs and playing daemons since they were released(i waited fro this army for years)

Slaanesh and Tzeench are the way to go. Take this army and make it a horde army just uderstand that every turn ur constantly puttin more and more troops on the board. my army of slaanesh and tzeench has almost been unstoppable. also khore and nurgle are best put together

I have loved this army for the reasopn that you have to think on your toes the whole time you cant just plan a your strategy before hand.
 

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That aside I wonder if you would be willing to post a sample of your Nurgle Khorne lists Mentat.

Gub
Tomorrow I am trying this at 1750.

GUO *
Herald of Nurgle w/icon *
Skulltaker
7 PB, Icon *
7 PB (herald here) *
7 PB
8 BL, icon (skulltaker here)
8 BL
8 BL
DP, flight, MoK, blessing *
DP, flight, MoN, breath *

* = preferred wave

I have some other gifts on the GUO and DP

I'll most likely be playing a mech Blood Angel list in a Cities of Death scenario. Last week my opponent fielded Mephiston. I'm expecting multiple dreads this week including a librarian, so I hope my DPs are up to the task.

The Herald of Nurgle isn't very good, but I have the miniature and I play WYSIWYG and painted only, so some of my army selection is based on that. Actually I use him more for a WYSIWYG icon than anything else.

Skulltaker is on foot, but most of the time when we play a game with objectives he can get into the action. (I'll bring him in near the thick of the fighting). I just got the painted GUO and I haven't tried him yet. I also have not tried the Daemon Princes before so I will see how they work out.

I will generally be aggressive with the plaguebearers and get them near some enemy who are near an objective. If they survive, I will usually slaughter the enemy army with the bloodletters in the 2nd wave. It only takes a couple to make a mess of a marine squad.

My more typical Khorne/Nurgle list at 1000-1500 is something like:

Skulltaker and/or herald of Nurgle (sometimes only the herald of nurgle for a cheap HQ)

multiple squads of 7 PB
multiple squads of 8 BL

2 Soul Grinders with tongue (greatly annoying to my opponent)

I have used Flesh Hounds in the past but only because I have 16 painted :)

I always stack all Soul Grinders in my first wave along with PBs to plant icons and try to tie up enemy squads.

Now, before the "professional" players trash my lists and say they will never win, or that I am only playing unskilled opponents, let me say that success with daemons comes down to your ability to be flexible and make use of what you have available where and your ability to make the best of it.

I have been playing since around 1992 with various armies and I'm not going to say I am a great player but my "regular" army is pure infantry Deathwing and I win most of the time with that against a wide variety of armies (including at tournaments). I could make a NETLIST of any army I wanted, but I have a lot of fun with mono and dual god daemon lists.
 

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Well thanks for the list and the insight. I have enough PB to run 6 squads of 7 and enough bloodletters to run 2 squads of 8. I would like to see the Herald that you have. Realize this might not be the best thread for pics though.

I say if it works for you then it must be solid. Tactics do play a part in this game and at the end of the day if I had a good time then the hobby is working for me.

Gub
 

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I am playing on a city board and I win some lose some, you will have to experiment. It may or may not work well depending on your terrain and numerous other factors. The herald I have is actually the WFB Chaos Sorcerer of Nurgle who is holding a large staff and wearing a Dr. Suess hat.
 

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I am mostly just trying to get back into the game. I have played a lot of different armies in the past and have done well. However, this time around I jumped back in with a Pure Thousand Sons list that follows the fluff as best it can and am in the process of building Khorne and Nurgle Demon lists.

Thanks again for the input. I will be trying out a Mono Nurgle list pretty soon and hope to have a good time.

Gub
 

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Well I've been playing 40k since rogue trader days. I just picked up deamons and made the effort to at least test out different options and configurations and try to mitigate the obvious weaknesses ...

Mobility
AT
Randomness

Now I have a lot of deamons from my old CSM armies ( which I sadly had to finally seel off as CSM might be the weakest army out there ... even Necrons are better at certain point levels. I have to admit I followed Chumb's guide in the end with a few of my own modifications.

I had thought to play Sheralds but in the end I needed Tzeench Heralds for their fire power. I use two of these as my HQs and if I increase the point levels I will model one or two more.

I tested Crushers and they are so slow it's sad. Fatecrusher might be working for some but it takes some very lucky rolls or non-mech armies to succeed. I think it has the potential to surprise but it is too gimmicky for my taste. You need to castle up center table and send the Thirster out to take down tanks with a few DPs to back him up. Then you push out the Crushers from the center. On paper it seems fine. In games not so much.

So that meant I was going to use Fiends. C'mon. Seriously. These hguys are the best thing in the Daemon codex. Give me a good reason not to field three squads of six with UM. I'm all ears.

Troops I found trickier. I originally went with the durable PBs only but succumbed and decided that a squad of BLs could not hurt. I'm okay with them. So mostly PBs still but that BL unit to change things up and make my opponent decide what is the most pressing target ... heralds. bls, fiends or

I will take Fleshounds at 1750+ with Karanak. They have im,pressed me. They do have a big bloody bulls eye on them so DS them out of rapid fire range. Same as your fiends. Hope for decent scattr. Use cover. They do take the heat off the rest of your foreces too. They have to ber dealt with.

Finally ... I use Tzeench DPs ... no wings. I field two at 1500 and three at 2000.

I'm no expert but I play against good veteran players with good 5ed lists. My win/loss after three months is acceptable. I'm not beating mech IG. Not unless I'm pretty lucky. I have problems against RD MechDar too but those games can be tricky but winnable. Razor spam well built and depending on the variety ... winnable. At 1500 points DE can be a nightmare byut again if you know how they play close off their options. Donm't let them surround objectives with Raiders and take them out turn five or six. They always start well. Just end better then them. Finally ... a good solid Tau list ... haven't been able to crack that nut although my current build plays the best so far against them they still beat me.

I'm liking Daemons. I know I'm in for some losses but I believe as I play them more I'll be able to reduce my defeats and win a lot more matches. I will still tweak up and experiment for the best mix.
 

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Last night I played 2 battles using the Khorne/Nurgle army mentioned above, led by the Great Unclean One and with 2 daemon princes. The first game was the Fire Sweep mission. The second game was the 2 objective game, dawn of war setup from the rulebook. My Blood Angels opponent had:

Librarian in terminator armor
librarian with jump pack
librarian dreadnaught
5 terminators with lightning claws
5 vanguard veterans
1 assault squad
1 tactical squad with flamer and lascannon

I won both games but it was tough. He killed the GUO and both the daemon princes in the first game, and killed the GUO and the khorne daemon prince the second game. My winged nurgle prince was definately worth it, as he caused havok all over the place in both games. Lightning claws with preferred enemy will definately hurt monstrous creatures. The librarian dreadnaught was no joke either.
 

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Looks like a pretty foul list. Pumping out some serious firepower and/or CC action to drop the Fat nasty and the DP. I have yet to face the BA as I have been out of the loop so long. Have really on tangled with some ork armies and that was with Sisters. They have been traded away though so not to worry.

Will be starting on my Mono Nurgle in the next week or so and will more than likely add some Khorne elements to it eventually. There is a 1850 tourney coming in August and I intend to go fully painted Mono Nurgle. we shall see.

Just hard for me to mix all of the Gods into one force. fluff nut somewhat I guess. anyway as always appreciated the viewpoints presented.

Gub
 

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Well I've been playing 40k since rogue trader days. I just picked up deamons and made the effort to at least test out different options and configurations and try to mitigate the obvious weaknesses ...

Mobility
AT
Randomness

Now I have a lot of deamons from my old CSM armies ( which I sadly had to finally seel off as CSM might be the weakest army out there ... even Necrons are better at certain point levels. I have to admit I followed Chumb's guide in the end with a few of my own modifications.

I had thought to play Sheralds but in the end I needed Tzeench Heralds for their fire power. I use two of these as my HQs and if I increase the point levels I will model one or two more.

I tested Crushers and they are so slow it's sad. Fatecrusher might be working for some but it takes some very lucky rolls or non-mech armies to succeed. I think it has the potential to surprise but it is too gimmicky for my taste. You need to castle up center table and send the Thirster out to take down tanks with a few DPs to back him up. Then you push out the Crushers from the center. On paper it seems fine. In games not so much.

So that meant I was going to use Fiends. C'mon. Seriously. These hguys are the best thing in the Daemon codex. Give me a good reason not to field three squads of six with UM. I'm all ears.

Troops I found trickier. I originally went with the durable PBs only but succumbed and decided that a squad of BLs could not hurt. I'm okay with them. So mostly PBs still but that BL unit to change things up and make my opponent decide what is the most pressing target ... heralds. bls, fiends or

I will take Fleshounds at 1750+ with Karanak. They have im,pressed me. They do have a big bloody bulls eye on them so DS them out of rapid fire range. Same as your fiends. Hope for decent scattr. Use cover. They do take the heat off the rest of your foreces too. They have to ber dealt with.

Finally ... I use Tzeench DPs ... no wings. I field two at 1500 and three at 2000.

I'm no expert but I play against good veteran players with good 5ed lists. My win/loss after three months is acceptable. I'm not beating mech IG. Not unless I'm pretty lucky. I have problems against RD MechDar too but those games can be tricky but winnable. Razor spam well built and depending on the variety ... winnable. At 1500 points DE can be a nightmare byut again if you know how they play close off their options. Donm't let them surround objectives with Raiders and take them out turn five or six. They always start well. Just end better then them. Finally ... a good solid Tau list ... haven't been able to crack that nut although my current build plays the best so far against them they still beat me.

I'm liking Daemons. I know I'm in for some losses but I believe as I play them more I'll be able to reduce my defeats and win a lot more matches. I will still tweak up and experiment for the best mix.
This the reason ive loved this army as well its so open for customization and it can be played in diffrent ways. Im always seeing new strange ways to field this army oh BTW one reason to not field 3 full squads of 6 fiends 3 full squads of flamers
 

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Looks like a pretty foul list. Pumping out some serious firepower and/or CC action to drop the Fat nasty and the DP. I have yet to face the BA as I have been out of the loop so long. Have really on tangled with some ork armies and that was with Sisters. They have been traded away though so not to worry.

Will be starting on my Mono Nurgle in the next week or so and will more than likely add some Khorne elements to it eventually. There is a 1850 tourney coming in August and I intend to go fully painted Mono Nurgle. we shall see.

Just hard for me to mix all of the Gods into one force. fluff nut somewhat I guess. anyway as always appreciated the viewpoints presented.

Gub
That Blood Angel list was pretty nasty. He was oriented towards close combat because when he shows up he has no idea if I will be playing Daemons or CSM. Last time I used CSM and the list would have been very tough on them. As far as fluff, I am old school and I don't use Slaanesh and Khorne or Tzeentch and Nurgle together based on the old rivalries as depicted in Slaves to Darkness/Lost and the Damned. But I do use other combinations, usually Slaanesh/Tzeentch or Nurgle/Khorne. I made an all Nurgle list including Epidemius, but haven't tried it yet. You definately need something mobile to open transports and kill tanks. With pure Nurgle I guess that means multiple soul grinders at lower points and multiple princes at higher point levels. I have to say that the winged Nurgle Prince I used was really handy, the T6 made a big difference. Two or Three of those would definately handle the tanks. I have found that walkers are the hardest thing to deal with, but he managed to kill the dread without much problem. (Though I did get lucky in rolling a weapon removed result right away, which helped)
 

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That is pretty much the same fluff i like to stick with as far as mixing the gods. I am thinking that since I will playing at a higher point level 3 winged Nurgle DPs will be on the board for sure. In addition I will be running the core of a Tallyman list I found on this site or anotehr I forget which. Basically as much Nurgle as I can fit into the 1850 points. I think at last count it was running around 42 PB, Epidemus, Ku' Gath, 3 DPS and possibly some Nurglings. We shall see how it fares. Now to get it painted.

Gub
 

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I found that a flying daemon prince with breath of chaos (AKA marines die on a 4+) can really increase the tally.
I would personally go with Gaze. It's already Str 5 AP3, DP's hit on 2's with ballistic skill, and allow the Daemon Prince to drop out of charge range and shoot up marines. Since they get wings, this allows you to force your opponent to take the hits without putting your DP in danger on the turn he comes into play or risk being too close to the opponent and drifting into the unit.

Every turn counts with Daemons!
 

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Katie, if a crappy list is winning it means that Scuzz is really good or plays really bad opponents. I may have gotten my start at YTTH but this is all me :p
LOL being away from the forum for nearly 2 months, coincidently tonight was the first time I have played in 2 months as well, decided to trawl back through what I have missed in my usual lurking manner and find my name is been taking in vain! :laugh:

Ok for the record the mono-nurgle list that I put up every now and then was ran by me from pretty much when the Codex came out until just before the ETC last summer. I allowed me to bring home the bacon with a top 3 placing in no less than 5 50+ player tourneys in the UK in just over a year. I also managed top 20 finishes at the UK GT heat and Final with it, both times only losing out to an eventual top 3 player. So I can only spray my tea at my laptop in amusement when I read that I only play bad opponents. On the contrary I am the founding member of the number 1 40k tournament club/team in the UK and count multiple GT winners amongst my common opponents and team mates.

So without sounding too much like an egotistical cock I can confidently say I am a pretty good player. That however doesn't mean that I can pick up any list and do so well with it, at the sharp end of tourney play you need both a solid list and the skills/knowledge to use it in games, we all know this. So therefore I am always amused at the instant dismissal of the Mono-Nurgle army.

Certainly in 2K+ with single force org charts Mono-Nurgle becomes very poor, but then so does the Daemon Codex in general as we do have one of the weakest, least versatile and game effecting troops section in the game. An achievement only trumped by Necrons and Vanilla Marines.

However at anything less than 2k, where mech players start to have to make harder choices about what they can bring (as opposed to filling every force org slot) the playing field is much more balanced and Mono-Nurgle is a competitive list.

Since last summer I have moved towards a more mixed bag Daemon army which has evolved towards this:

Great Unclean One: Cloud of Flies - 165
Tzeentch Herald: Chariot, Bolt of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery, We Are Legion - 110
Tzeentch Herald: Chariot, Bolt of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery, We Are Legion - 110
5 Bloodcrushers: Icon, Instrument, Fury of the Blood God - 240
6 Fiends: Unholy Might - 190
6 Fiends: Unholy Might - 190
6 Plaguebearers - 90
6 Plaguebearers - 90
6 Plaguebearers - 90
6 Plaguebearers - 90
4 Screamers - 64
Soulgrinder: Phlegm - 160
Soulgrinder: Phlegm - 160
Total = 1749

Over the past year out of the 4 indi tournaments I have taken this to I have finished with the top 4 each time, winning 2 of them, plus top 20 finishes once again at both the GT heat and Final as a result this list has me presently ranked 14th in the UK which aint bad going considering a lot of the top 20 have gotten their big ranking points from events I ran, and therefore could not enter. It is also the list I am taking with me next weekend to the ETC and expect to do quite well with it.

Again ability is an important factor but the list still matters, and I can only point at my tourney success and say that this therefore is a very solid list.

There are a couple of other Daemon builds out there which I also rate as top level for tourneys, the first being my mate Rob's Fatefiend list:

Fateweaver - 333
Bloodthrister: Unholy Might, Blessing of the Blood God - 275
6 Fiends: Unholy Might - 190
6 Fiends: Unholy Might - 190
6 Fiends: Unholy Might - 190
5 Plaguebearers: Icon - 100
5 Plaguebearers - 75
5 Plaguebearers - 75
Soulgrinder: Phlegm - 160
Soulgrinder: Phlegm - 160
Total = 1748

Once again we have a list often dismissed by the YTTH followers/crowd but again all I can say is look at Rob's tourney record: i.e finishing 7th at both this years GT heat and Final, and being presently ranked number 1 in the UK. Doesn't take a genius to see the strengths in the list and the fact that if it is consistently winning tournaments in Rob's hands not only is he a good player, but it is a good army (though to rub it in once more against him I did beat it with my above list :wink:).

Finally I want to put forward another example, this time by the Daemon Cavalry army favoured by another friend of mine, Paul Burke (ranked 11th in the UK):

Slaanesh Herald: Chariot, Unholy Might, Soporific Musk, Pavane - 110
Slaanesh Herald: Chariot, Unholy Might, Soporific Musk, Pavane - 110
Tzeentch Herald: Chariot, Bolt of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery, We Are Legion - 110
Tzeentch Herald: Chariot, Bolt of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery, We Are Legion - 110
6 Fiends: Unholy Might - 190
6 Fiends: Unholy Might - 190
6 Fiends: Unholy Might - 190
5 Plaguebearers - 75
5 Plaguebearers - 75
5 Plaguebearers - 75
5 Plaguebearers - 75
12 Flesh Hounds - 180
12 Flesh Hounds - 180
5 Screamers - 80
Total = 1750

Once more a list often denounced by the more vocal bloggers and posters but wait a minute, this builds once more upon the Daemon codex's key strengths and is winning tournaments....

Sorry if this comes off as a rant but (1) I have been down the club today for some practice games ahead of the ETC and as a result that includes plenty of beer, and (2) I am a little bit sick of late of the YTTH crowd and their keyboard hero "You Fail, I win" antics which seems to have become very vocal on several other major forums that I lurk around as a result of the USA entering the ETC. What they all seem to fail to realise, or pretend they do acknowledge, is that the game is fundamentally different at 1500pts, 1750pts, 2000pts, 2500pts etc etc. Different points brackets favour some armies vastly more than others. In the UK we play 1750 or 1500 as a rule and Daemons are VERY good at that point level. In the US they play 2000 or 2500 as a rule and suddenly the army is weakened as you already have all your key choices and are just being forced to spam out of chaff to make up the points. Again and again I feel like banging my head against the wall when I see such ready and easy dismissal of Daemons as most people seem to fail to realise this key point.

Anyways its late and I need some sleep before tomorrow and my interview with 11th Company radio on various 40k topics including, surprisingly, Daemons :wink:

Sweet dreams everyone.
 

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Chumbalaya, What do you say if you lose to demons? "Oh I know I lost but its ok, you just got really lucky" Or, "You only won because im a poor player"
 

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you can not give mark of nergle and wings
You can give both to a daemon prince... but it just doesn't really 'feel' right- but then daemon princes with the mark of nurgle generally dont feel right, since they can have wings and have really high WS and I... so not really the putrid blobs that the fluff would suggest.
 

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It depends what army you are building and what you are playing against. But I would agree.. is a competetive list I would never take a soulgrinder... but I would take 3.

If all you are fighting is lascannons and their equivalents then soul grinders will do you very nicely. It takes an average of 13.5 shots to destroy a soul grinder with lascannon (not counting cumulative damage roles- but then 3 weapon destroyed results an immobalised plus 1 other is unlikely)... although the potential is there to get killed on the first shot. Meanwhile ti take an average of 10.8 shots to kill a DP (14.4 if its tzeentch). This sounds relatively equal but since the grinder is immune to anything S6 and below (apart from in its rear), which includes in combat (so standard marines cannot hurt it except with a powerfist- or a very lucky melta bomb)... all in all that makes soul grinders hard to kill.

Where soul grinders do badly is when the enemy gets in close and uses melta weaponry, where it should only take about 4 shots on average to kill the grinder (assuming close range).


So conclusions- if you can take out the enemy melta weaponry soul grinders are the most efficient, if you cant then daemon princes are the way to go.
Though thats a pure Mathhammer approach- other things come into play like wanting wings or a MoN for a tally list which make DPs necessary... or if you want phelgm to counter any MEQ equivalent hoards you might encounter (obviously more likely in friendly games).
 
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