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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
this came up in a game over the weekend and we were unsure of how this worked. this is the what happened.

I rolled on the chaos boon table and got the Witch Eater "passing a deny the witch roll makes the enemy psyker take a S6 AP2 hit"

so what happened in the next psychic phase was my friend was using grey knights and was casting a lot of blessings, I was rolling to deny the witch on these saying that the model with the witch eater was denying them and everytime I denied the psychic power he took a S6 AP2 hit on the unit which cast it.

we decided that this didn't seem right as all of a sudden he had lost 3 models in the turn (I had some pretty lucky rolls) so we made it that only if the unit with the witch eater was targeted for the rest of the game.

what I was looking for was other peoples interpretation of the rule as there is no FAQ on it. I know it is rare to get on the boon table and also only against another psyker army is it worth anything, but if we had of played it using him to deny everything it would've changed the course of the game.

thanks in advance

Woodzee
 

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RAW is how you were originally playing it. You just happened to have all the planets align and make it something scary. In most games it would be annoying but not really game breaking. If you and your friend wish to houserule it though there is nothing to wrong with that.
 

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Witch-Eater allows you to hurt the Psyker if je or his unit passes the Deny the Witch test.
To make a Deny the Witch check you must select one of your units that was the target of the enemies psychic power. If it is not targetted at one of your units (like with a blessing) you can still make a Deny the Witch check. But he or his unit are not be making it, So you would not get any benifit from his Witch Eater.
 

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Witch-Eater allows you to hurt the Psyker if je or his unit passes the Deny the Witch test.
To be fair, that is not what the rule states. I have attached a screenshot of the rule for reference.

I'd house rule it personally. But if you go RAW it just states "Passing a deny the witch test". It has no mention if it is the model itself, his unit or anything near him.

It's obviously a relic from 6th edition, that works better than intended in 7th :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
just came back from my local GW store and was chatting with he guy about this. and he explained as such:

the new edition means that any psychic power can be denied even blessings which target the players own troops.

they get there power off then you choose to deny it in this case hammerhand.

you then choose which model is going to deny the witch roll.

At this point you would choose the witch eater as the person rolling the deny dice.

if he then dispels the psychic power, then one of the brotherhood of psyker (the one who is casting the hammerhand) models then takes the hit from the witch eater ability.

as others have said, all the planets had to line up. firstly have to be playing a psyker heavy army, have to gain the roll on the boon table, then have to roll that particular trait and then use enough deny dice to gain the benefit of the ability. so is not an easy thing to do, not to mention all the things that can go wrong on the table.

just thought i'd put that up there.

thanks for the input as well.
 

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To be fair, that is not what the rule states. I have attached a screenshot of the rule for reference.

I'd house rule it personally. But if you go RAW it just states "Passing a deny the witch test". It has no mention if it is the model itself, his unit or anything near him.

It's obviously a relic from 6th edition, that works better than intended in 7th :)
I see you quoted the reference section there... This is the one from the full section.

 

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as others have said, all the planets had to line up. firstly have to be playing a psyker heavy army, have to gain the roll on the boon table, then have to roll that particular trait and then use enough deny dice to gain the benefit of the ability. so is not an easy thing to do, not to mention all the things that can go wrong on the table.
exactly. we might as well use it RAW, since it's justa situational thing at best. Also, not so overpowered like, say, a Psy heavy Grey Knight list...hard counters are the bread and butter of this game, sadly (or not). Your frind has to fear "Result 41" :D

I see you quoted the reference section there... This is the one from the full section.

As said before, now you choose whatever unit you want to pass the deny the witch rolls, even with blessings. Same way you could do that with a greater level psyker to get that +1 on the roll.
 

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Under the new rules if read throughout the 4-6 pages it seems to try to spread them out over for denying the witch. The only time you can have a person or unit Deny the Witch, seems to be when something is cast at them (or at least hits them). Otherwise you are still allowed to Deny the Witch, but there is no focal point it comes from.

Also



would be awesome if you are allowed to select who is doing it as under "General Principals" Section of the rule book as the last line of BASIC VERSUS ADVANCED.

Where advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rules. For example, the basic rules state that a model must take a Morale check under certain situations. If, however, that model has a special rule that makes it immune to Morale checks, then it does not take such checks – the advanced rule takes precedence. On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex or Army List Entry always takes precedence
 

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As said before, now you choose whatever unit you want to pass the deny the witch rolls, even with blessings. Same way you could do that with a greater level psyker to get that +1 on the roll
This is true - Though you never get any bonus-modifiers to deny a blessing (in the case of Khorne) you would still get the Witcheater effect if you succeed.
 

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This is true - Though you never get any bonus-modifiers to deny a blessing (in the case of Khorne) you would still get the Witcheater effect if you succeed.
I repeat the BRB says

On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex or Army List Entry always takes precedence

So you would get it, because BRB says it does :) Though if what I say below is correct (what I believe it is, then you can't because you are not the target, thus the individual doesn't get the right to Deny with them).

Though as said the quotey bit in BRB about denying is

To make a deny the witch test, first select one of your units that was the target of the enemy's psychic power...
Then goes on to say

If none of your units were the target of the enemy's psychic power (the power may have been a blessing, a conjuration, or some other power that only affects the psykers own troops) you can still attempt to Deny the Witch. To do so, follow the same process, but apply no modifiers to your dice rolls...
So in essence I believe it is saying that...
You can always try to Deny the Witch as a base roll (as in it fizzles in the air for whatever reason), that is your right to do so. HOWEVER if it is targeted at your stuff then you may try to Deny the Witch with that unit and have any bonuses associated with it. Because the only reference given to selecting one of your units to Deny is when they are targeted.

I guess the exception would be models with a Psychic Hood of course being able to Deny for a friendly model in 12" of them if they are the target, but the likely chance of a Psychic Hood + some other Anti-Psyker power being combined is rare or non existent.
 

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I repeat the BRB says

On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex or Army List Entry always takes precedence

So you would get it, because BRB says it does :) Though if what I say below is correct (what I believe it is, then you can't because you are not the target, thus the individual doesn't get the right to Deny with them).

Though as said the quotey bit in BRB about denying is

Then goes on to say

So in essence I believe it is saying that...
You can always try to Deny the Witch as a base roll (as in it fizzles in the air for whatever reason), that is your right to do so. HOWEVER if it is targeted at your stuff then you may try to Deny the Witch with that unit and have any bonuses associated with it. Because the only reference given to selecting one of your units to Deny is when they are targeted.

I guess the exception would be models with a Psychic Hood of course being able to Deny for a friendly model in 12" of them if they are the target, but the likely chance of a Psychic Hood + some other Anti-Psyker power being combined is rare or non existent.
Well, good sir, you clearly have reason on your side. I gladly see your point as the definitive answer to this thread!
:victory:
 

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Well is it not a conflict between Rule Book and Codex?

Though as I also say if you read down the post that IMOO from what I can see in the BRB, that the situation you are placed in would not result in the conflict :)
 

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Okay, I think I may be missing part of the text on this. Is there a full description of the power that notes this as occuring when the Psyker or his unit is targeted? The brief description seems pretty clear:

'Witch-Eater: Passing a Deny the Witch test makes the enemy Psyker take a S6 AP2 hit.'

It used to be that 'passing a Deny the Witch' meant your Psyker/unit had been targeted. As this is no longer the case, it sounds like it becomes a global rule. I am missing how this is in conflict with a rule in the BRB.
 

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Okay, I think I may be missing part of the text on this. Is there a full description of the power that notes this as occuring when the Psyker or his unit is targeted? The brief description seems pretty clear:

'Witch-Eater: Passing a Deny the Witch test makes the enemy Psyker take a S6 AP2 hit.'

It used to be that 'passing a Deny the Witch' meant your Psyker/unit had been targeted. As this is no longer the case, it sounds like it becomes a global rule. I am missing how this is in conflict with a rule in the BRB.
Yeah if you scroll back a page there is a nice post by me with a picky a couple before the Collar of Khorne one. The Reference Section post says what you did. However the boon table says "When the Champion or his Unit pass a Deny the Witch roll, the enemy psyker immediately takes a S6, AP2 hit."
 
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