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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Dear Friends,

I am new to Chaos Space Marines.

I do not have any experience with them and my target is to plan casual games to have FUN playing and has de possibility to WIN from time to time.

I am now planning which MINIS start buying and painting.

I would like to have a MULTIGOD chaos space marine army list of 1.500 points that is in general BALANCED with a slightly higher FOCUS in Assault and Close Combat.

The SKELETON of the 1.500 points list I would like to have is as follows:

Total Roster Cost: 655

HQ: Chaos Lord (1#, 170 pts)
1 Chaos Lord = Mark of Nurgle + Lightning Claw x1 + Melta Bombs + Power Fist x1 + Sigil of Corruption + Chaos Bike

HQ: Chaos Lord (1#, 175 pts)
1 Chaos Lord = Mark of Khorne + Melta Bombs + Sigil of Corruption + 1 Axe of Blind Fury + Juggernaut of Khorne

Fast Attack: Chaos Bikers (5#, 190 pts)
4 Chaos Bikers = Mark of Nurgle + Meltagun x2
1 Biker Champion = base cost + Mark of Nurgle + Power Sword x1 + Combi-Meltagun + Melta Bombs

Fast Attack: Chaos Spawn (4#, 120 pts)
4 Chaos Spawn
I would appreciate your general ADVICE on:

(1) Is this build with 2 LORDS and 2 FAST options VIABLE at 1.500 points level? If not which other options do your recommend?

(2) Is the configuration of the BIKES ok? Or can it be improved?

(3) Which is your advice on the other UNITS to include in order to fill de 1.500 points and has and overall BALANCED list?

(4) DO you think that to include 5 TERMIS with combi plasma or combi flamers DEEPSTRIKING would be of help or useful?​

THANK YOU IN ADVANCED!
 

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Hi Advisor.
The initial set up you proposed is good and quite competitive. I'd just remove the power sword on the biker champ, since he is tasked with tankhunting and in a challenge he is not going to help you so much.
IF iou want to be FoC abiding, i'd suggest 2 X 15 units of cultists to put on objectives and score (maybe even to assault and take it from the enemy, but together, never alone)
Then, terminators could be good, altough for DSing i go for the 3 man squad, since they are a suicide squad anyway.
For funny, cc oriented stuff, you could take a Helcult Formation (20 more cultists, an helbrute with reaper autocannon and heavy flamer) for just 220 pts. they could be the "non-competitive" part of your list but never underestimate them.
Then, you could skip heavy shooting and go for 3 maulerfiends...or take a dakka predator (autocannon, hbolter sponsons, havoc launcher, extra combibolter, reinforced armour)
AND 2 maulerfiends.

SO that would be
Total Roster Cost: 655

HQ: Chaos Lord (1#, 170 pts)
1 Chaos Lord = Mark of Nurgle + Lightning Claw x1 + Melta Bombs + Power Fist x1 + Sigil of Corruption + Chaos Bike

HQ: Chaos Lord (1#, 175 pts)
1 Chaos Lord = Mark of Khorne + Melta Bombs + Sigil of Corruption + 1 Axe of Blind Fury + Juggernaut of Khorne

Fast Attack: Chaos Bikers (5#, 190 pts)
4 Chaos Bikers = Mark of Nurgle + Meltagun x2
1 Biker Champion = base cost + Mark of Nurgle + Power Sword x1 + Combi-Meltagun + Melta Bombs

Fast Attack: Chaos Spawn (4#, 120 pts)
4 Chaos Spawn

15 cultists (70)
15 cultists (70)

3 Terminators
3 combiweapons (melta) (112)

Helcult (220)
Helbrute, reaper autocannon, heavy flamer
10 cultists
10 cultists

2 Maulerfiends (250)

1 Dakka Predator (H Bolter sponsons, reinforced armour, Havoc launcher, extra combibolter) (123)

This way you have a suicide unit (temin) as a distraction, 4 fast and hardhitting units + 2 facewrecking lords and a solid backup support for crowd control and objective taking (cultists + helcult + Predator)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Dear Friend,

Thank you for your replay and advice. It is of great help.

I like a lot your proposal.

I am going now to try the list in the Army Builder program.

I will come back to you with more questions and doubts on how to use your proposed list to its maximum benefit.

Meanwhile I will appreciate more comments from other mates.

THANKS AGAIN.

Advisor.
 

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I am now planning which MINIS start buying and painting.

I would like to have a MULTIGOD chaos space marine army list of 1.500 points that is in general BALANCED with a slightly higher FOCUS in Assault and Close Combat.
!

Hi there.

The core of the list is good. I would add some tactical squads (2 or 3) with flamer/melta/plasma. The are very versatile and make up for their points. Since you want 2 lords with nurgle/khorne dedicated troops are a must. I like beserkers a lot and they do the job done. Plague marines are very good at holding objectives. With +1T and FNP they are difficult to wipe.

Helldrake? Not so good as before but always a MUST

Bikes are nice, but are also raptors. Personally i prefer bikes, but it's a question of preference.

A deamon prince with wigs, flying around and casting fire at everybody is also a good choice.

Finally it depends of the local meta that you are inserted, but I think it would be nice for you to have some range power for support, and sometimes to get that "first blood" point. Havocs and obliterators are goo for thath
 

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As normal I am pretty much with #Neferhet on this one. Though the Predator is nice, I do prefer the 3rd Mauler.
This means you would have 1 lord with bikers, 1 lord with spawns running along side 3 maulers at equal pace. This means turn 2 your army will likely be in CC with a few inches to spare with most of your army, and they cant try to pick off a couple of faster units to save themselves for a 50/50 split charge over turn 2-3.

If going against Marines then of course the bikers getting VotLW at 1pt a model. Normally I don't recommend VotLW because your normal marines take to long to get the chance to get in to combat, but bikers are a sure thing and it is still dirt cheep. The reroll to hit using Krak Grenades and Melta bombs is a big thing as you get limited to just the 1 attack per model, this can mean the failing to hit costs you an additional turn of that tank / walker kicking your arse.

Personal pref for the power sword in the bikers is as Nef said, Remove it. Otherwise replace it with a lightning claw IMOO as it works the same but the 1 extra attack (giving you 3/4) vs the rerolling all failed to wounds (2/3 attacks).

To me the Helcult doesn't fit as it is then the slow element of the army that will not be able to shoot after turn 2 because everything should be locked in to combat or you will have severely blocked line of sights.
You could if you feel like a madmad go for a Mayhem pack and replace that Helcult and that predator that Nef had to allow you to have 3 DSing Helbrutes armed as you want (probably Melta and Powerfist OR Powerfist & Scourge or Hammer (or again the madman option of Scourge and Hammer).
As far as I have read up on them. The Mayhem Pack rolls to deepstrike as 1 unit to come on, BUT after that they act as individuals, and I believe (though I might be wrong as I don't have the slate with me) that they could all deepstrike as separate things in different places and do not act as a Vehicle Squad (as the Murderpack states they do class as a Vehicle Squad). So when they come down you can fire your melta or whatever at different things and also charge separate targets in the following turns.
Remember Concussion can save your life by making almost anything that can eat you strike last and for 5pts it isn't to bad as otherwise it is just a powerfist.
Scourges are great because that D3 reduction on all enemy in contacts WS means you should hit on 3s vs pretty much everyone and may make them have to hit you on 5s (if you can drop them to WS2. This may also help your Maulers as well as they are only WS3 by themselves so you can assist them if required. Remember that the flail rule applies before you even need to pick your weapon, so that bonus counts even when you use the fist / hammer. Though at 10pts extra it is a bit expensive and you still need that Powerfist or Hammer to get yourself that S10 hit.

Having the Mayhem and 2 Maulers means you have a nice 2 fast dreadnaught that are take eaters, then 3 slow ones that deepstrike in where needed. This means you have a lot of armour for your opponent to deal with.
The only thing I would say with doing that and having those DS terminators and the Mayhem pack would be I would really try to somehow fit in a comms relay to get that reroll on reserves, as you don't want them showing up on turn 3 and still not being able to charge in till turn 4 when the game is almost over.

The other major thing it then changes from Nefs one is you only have 2 cultest groups to sit on objectives, the rest of your army is out for blood and denying your opponent any chance to get any themselves, maybe even tabling them. HOWEVER this has come at the cost of limiting your models to a very very low number.
 

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You could if you feel like a madmad go for a Mayhem pack and replace that Helcult and that predator that Nef had to allow you to have 3 DSing Helbrutes armed as you want (probably Melta and Powerfist OR Powerfist & Scourge or Hammer (or again the madman option of Scourge and Hammer).
:good: MADNESS!!!!
 

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Considering the Mayhem pack is always Crazed wouldnt you want some shooting on there too just in case you have to stand still and shoot?
 

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Considering the Mayhem pack is always Crazed wouldnt you want some shooting on there too just in case you have to stand still and shoot?
Hell, a double tap reaper autocannon will smash some serious face
 

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Thats why the initial one had melta and fist/hammer. Though a reaper is good as well.

PS. Nef, i have arranged a game now to use that will use that will use that list of 3 Mayhem, 1 Murder pack and to make it up to 2000pts i am working out if i should have 2 Helcults as well so 2 more brutes with about 50 cultists OR the 4 Maulerfiends :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Hi ALL,

Thank you very much for your great answers and advice.

The 1,5K lists you are proposing (both, the one with HELLCULT and the other one with MAYHEM PACK) are AMAZING and fulfill the requirements I had when I decided to play Chaos SM:

  • Fun to play with and Fun to play against.
  • 2 Lords with 2 Fast units advancing towards the enemy.
  • Lots of Cultists.
  • Lots of HellBruts.
  • Assault oriented but with some other interesting units (Termis Deepstriking, Predator in the 1st list).
  • Etc.

I have already decided to buy the MINIS that I am missing to build both lists at 1.500 points.

As I am quite new to Wh40k and totally new to Chaos SM I would appreciate your support on how to bring the 1st list (the one with HellCult) to 2.000 points. I was thinking as our friend "mayegelt" to add a MAYHEM PACK. What more units would you add or how would you change the list to fit the 2.000 points?

THANKS A LOT.
 

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if you take th helpack, drop the helcult. instead take an heldrake. then add up a nurgle daemon prince with wings and black mace. there you go :grin:
if you still have some points take another obliterator
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Thank you for your quick reply.

One question. If I use the mayhem pack (3 Hellbruts) do I have to drop the DS TERMIS because it would mean I have 4 elites slots full?

The same regarding the Demon Prince. This would mean that I have 2 lords plus the Demond a total of 3 HQ? Is this legal now in 7th?

Thank you!

Advisor
 

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The mahiem pack is a formation, so it's ok, it won't take slots in your first Combined arms detach.
The DP can go in a second combined arms detachment if you don't want to go unbound, you just have to sacrifice 100 pts for two token units of cultist (that can however come handy for objective grabbing / meatshields)...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Dear Friends,

So, the proposed list will look someting like this: - DO YOU HAVE MORE COMMENTS OR ADVICE?

How do I use the Demon in the overall tactic?

1999 Pts - Chaos Space Marines

HQ: Chaos Lord (1#, 175 pts)
Chaos Lord 175

HQ: Chaos Lord (1#, 170 pts)
Chaos Lord 170
Axe of Blind Fury [35]

Elite: Chaos Terminators (3#, 124 pts)
2x Chaos Terminators 124
Terminator Champion [40]

Elite: Helbrute (1#, 115 pts)
Helbrute 115

Elite: Helbrute (1#, 115 pts)
Helbrute 115

Elite: Helbrute (1#, 115 pts)
Helbrute 115

Fast Attack: Chaos Bikers (5#, 160 pts)
4x Chaos Bikers 160
Biker Champion [36]

Fast Attack: Chaos Spawn (4#, 120 pts)
4x Chaos Spawn 120

Fast Attack: Heldrake (1#, 170 pts)
Heldrake 170

Troops: Chaos Cultists (15#, 70 pts)
14x Chaos Cultists 70
Cultist Champion [14]

Troops: Chaos Cultists (15#, 70 pts)
14x Chaos Cultists 70
Cultist Champion [14]

Heavy Support: Maulerfiend (1#, 125 pts)
Maulerfiend 125

Heavy Support: Maulerfiend (1#, 125 pts)
Maulerfiend 125

HQ: Daemon Prince (1#, 245 pts)
Daemon Prince 245
The Black Mace [45]

Troops: Chaos Cultists (10#, 50 pts)
9x Chaos Cultists 50
Cultist Champion [14]

Troops: Chaos Cultists (10#, 50 pts)
9x Chaos Cultists 50
Cultist Champion [14]


THANKS A LOT!
 

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The prince does one thing: he smash faces. He has a 2+ cover while flying since he will always jink and then charge. never let him alone, since he can be frail in cc. the perfect situation for him is to charge alongside spawns + lord.
otherwise (but is a bit wasted) you could use him to kill aircraft, since he is a flying MC.
the mace will help to clear out mobs of light infantry that might want to tarpit him.
 

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Also remember as Nef said the Formations (Mayhem / Helcult) troops don't count towards the min or max allowances. So that army you linked has 2HQ (2 lords), 1 Elite (Terminators), 3 Fast (Spawn, Bikes, Drake), 2 Heavy (Maulers), 2 Troops (Cultists) + a Secondary CAD with 1HQ (prince) 2 troops (Cultists) + 1 Mayhem Pack (3 Brutes).

As said you could really do with 1-3 obliterators, preferably attached to the princes one as you could take them all as singles then. But as said the points are a bit limited so looks like a no go.

The BIGGER problem is now that you have a Mayhem pack (that is required to DS) you wanted to DS your terminators, also you have a Heldrake as well. You now have 3 units that come on from reserve. On a 3+ they arrive, so a 66% chance to arrive. If you can get a Comms Relay then you can reroll failed ones. So 3+ with reroll = about 88% chance.
Again the prob with this is you will need to free up 20pts for the relay and X for a fort to attach it to. Also would need stronghold assault book to be able to get the stats and profiles.
The normal ones people go for are Aegis for 50pts (+20 for comms making it 70pts) though if you aren't standing back you will have a prob with this.
Wall of Martyrs Defence Emplacement will only cost 40pts (+ the comms)
Honoured Imperium (Chaos version) at 40pts you get a statue + 2 lots of rubble and you gain sacred ground. Normally this means all armies of imperium get stubborn if near it, but a chaos version would do the same for CSM / Daemons. So add the 20pts for the comms and you have a lovely way of getting no negative modifiers on some LD checks. This is good for keeping those Cultists from running away.

BETTER choices are (Both being good but I think the shield edges it)

Vengeance Weapon Battery. 75pts (+20pts comms) for a 20 shot punisher cannon S5 but cack range. Icarus Quad twinlinked S9 Ap2 2 shots interceptor / skyfire so a nice flyer killer. OR Battlecannon for a nice big S8 AP3 large blast with a good range. Each is good in its own way or against different enemies.

Void Shield Gen. For just 50pts + upto 2X25pts more (+20pts comm) you get an AV12 shield for anything in 12" of the structure (the extra 2X25 increases it to 2-3 shields). If glanced or Pen it takes one of these shields down. After all the shields are down a person can actually hit their intended targets (this isn't 1-3 shields per unit, this is 1-3 projected shields in the area, so they only need to take down each 1 once to mean that stuff is vulnerable). This means you have even more armour in your army. Before hitting a lot of your stuff you can make sure they have to have blown through 3 AV 12 shots into you before they can kill anything you have. The shields can also regenerate as well at the end of each turn. But at 120pts with the comms relay there you would need to strip a lot out of the army.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
DEAR FRIENDS,

I refer to the above list with the Hellcult.

I have two questions?:

(1) By the moment I only have 20 cultists. What do you think of playing with only 2 units of 10 cultists each and adding a chaos space marine unit? Can the list be played as initially intended?

(2) In the case I would play a mono khorne list. What do you think of increasing the bikes unit to 6 + lord and mark them with Khorne + Icon of wrath? Is still the bike unit playable and useful?​

PLEASE, let me have your advice on the list and which small modifications can I do on it to improve it! - THANKS

With the minis I actually have, the final list would look as follows:

Total Roster Cost: 1501

HQ: Chaos Lord (1#, 170 pts)
1 Chaos Lord, (Mark of Khorne + Sigil of Corruption + Juggernaut of Khorne) + 1 Axe of Blind Fury

HQ: Chaos Lord (1#, 160 pts)
1 Chaos Lord, = (Mark of Khorne + Lightning Claw x1 + Power Fist x1 + Sigil of Corruption) + Chaos Bike

Elite: Chaos Terminators (3#, 124 pts)
2 Chaos Terminators, = Chainfist x1 + Combi-Meltagun x2 +
1 Terminator Champion, = (Combi-Meltagun)

Elite: Helbrute (1#, 105 pts)
1 Helbrute, = (Reaper Autocannon)

Troops: Chaos Cultists (10#, 50 pts)

Troops: Chaos Cultists (10#, 50 pts)

Troops: Chaos Space Marines (9#, 180 pts)
7 Chaos Space Marines, = 7 (Mark of Khorne) + Flamer
1 Aspiring Champion, = (Mark of Khorne + Combi-Flamer)
1 Chaos Rhino

Fast Attack: Chaos Spawn (4#, 120 pts)
4 Chaos Spawn

Fast Attack: Chaos Bikers (6#, 197 pts)
5 Chaos Bikers = (Mark of Khorne) + Icon of Wrath + Meltagun x2
1 Biker Champion, 47 pts = (Mark of Khorne + Lightning Claw x1)

Heavy Support: Maulerfiend (1#, 125 pts)
1 Maulerfiend,

Heavy Support: Maulerfiend (1#, 125 pts)
1 Maulerfiend,

Heavy Support: Chaos Predator (1#, 95 pts)
1 Chaos Predator, = (base cost + Heavy Bolter (each side))​
 

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(1) By the moment I only have 20 cultists. What do you think of playing with only 2 units of 10 cultists each and adding a chaos space marine unit? Can the list be played as initially intended?
Yeah looks like a good idea, though it is slimming the current unit a bit. Maybe have to kill the predator to afford the extra unit of CSM. But 2X 10 cultists is fine as a bodyguard. How many shots will be fired at the Helbrute that will glance/pen what you will need to look out sir style cover save him with. just have a few at the front and back and it should absorb enough shots.
My normal is 2X 10-15cults to mean it is a larger amount at the front and a few just hovering at the back to cover from bolter fire or whatever.

(2) In the case I would play a mono khorne list. What do you think of increasing the bikes unit to 6 + lord and mark them with Khorne + Icon of wrath? Is still the bike unit playable and useful?
Bikes are always useful if they have a nice guy with a power armour wrecking weapon in them. Though the lord will have to pick who he will be running with. Bikers or Spawns.

Also you could of course have him ride with the spawns but split the bikers into 2 packs of 3 with 2 melta in each, that gives you 2 squads at 96pts without the icon what I think isn't a good buy for small squads or bikers anyway. Personally I am not much of a fan of the icon on bikes or jumps anyway as they can normally close themselves in enough to not need the reroll.

Personally pref though would now say scrap the Helcult as it wont be keeping up with the fast army that is also DSing in as well. And at the Cultists don't class as troops they don't get objective secured either.
Take the 2 squads of 10 cultists anyway as it gives you some more flexability and control on holding objectives you place near yourself. Then try to find where you can spend those 100ish PTS what were on the Helbrute.
You could free up a few more Pts then get another Mauler to replace that Pred and use that 70ish pts you have remaining from removing the brute to buy that extra CSM squad or top up the bikers and spawn with an extra person each or whatever.

Another option is scapping the first lord (the one not on bike) and throw in Zhufor as he is a bit of a beast as well and can come in with the terms.
 

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Another option is scapping the first lord (the one not on bike) and throw in Zhufor as he is a bit of a beast as well and can come in with the terms
Man, you really love Zhufor :laugh:
 
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