[gen.ahab]

I'm still building up my 1000pt US Army force, and I've running into an issue: veteran medium tanks are goddamn expensive. At 1000pts, a veteran M4A1, fully loaded, is going to run me nearly 300pts, which is disturbingly close to a third of my army. Now, my thought when faced with said issue was to dump the tank and go with an AT gun; however, despite how nice an AT gun would be, it has all the mobility of an overweight hamster and, if my opponent decides to forgo purchasing armor, it's useless, which just won't do. I need something with mobility, AT firepower, and some anti-infantry capability. That thought lead me to the M24 Chaffee. Fully upgraded, it's approximately a 23%, which is still a considerable investment, but it's fast, has a decent AT gun and can pump out a considerable amount lead. Trouble is that it's so lightly armored that it can be taken down by a particularly robust fart.

All that being said, here is my question: at 1000pts, is the M24 a viable option?

 

[Khorne's Fist]

AT guns are way over costed in BA. If you want one in your list it's much better to pay the extra points and have it mounted on a vehicle of some sort. They really only make sense in a themed list, like a British para list for Market Garden.

If you want a Sherman in your list, the 105mm howitzer version is a better choice than a standard Sherman. It's cheaper, and the gyro-stabilised 2d6 HE will red mist infantry units. It's not as good against tanks, but it does do d3 pins against them, as opposed to just the one that an AT gun does, which can prove almost as useful. Kit it out with a pintle MMG and cancel thin sides and it'll only cost 245pts.

Fully upgraded, it's approximately a 23%, which is still a considerable investment, but it's fast, has a decent AT gun and can pump out a considerable amount lead. Trouble is that it's so lightly armored that it can be taken down by a particularly robust fart.

That's why you always pay the 10pts for recce. It's an invulnerable save that you don't have to even roll. The trick is to make sure it's one of the first units you activate, so you get to dole out all the hurt it can before someone draws a bead on it and forces the recce move. Points for point, it's probably the best US tank in the game. A veteran light recce tank with the ability to put out d6 HE and 7 HMG/MMG shots for 225pts really is a no-brainer. By the way, it's no faster than a Sherman, even though it should be.

On the other hand, if you want something cheap and cheerful the M3 Stuart is a good choice. I've had a lot of success with my USMC Stuart. A light AT gun and three MMGs on a regular recce tank for 135pts is excellent value. Lately I have leaned towards the lighter, cheaper tanks with a few MMGs that can dish out lots of pins on infantry units.

Have you looked at playing at 1250pts? My group have been playing at that for a while now, and it really is the sweet spot. Throwing in that maxed out tank doesn't feel so bad, and it lets you take a couple of units you might not normally consider.

 

[gen.ahab]

AT guns are way over costed in BA. If you want one in your list it's much better to pay the extra points and have it mounted on a vehicle of some sort. They really only make sense in a themed list, like a British para list for Market Garden.

I figured that this was the case; an AT gun seems to be too much of a point sink for something so easily avoided.

If you want a Sherman in your list, the 105mm howitzer version is a better choice than a standard Sherman. It's cheaper, and the gyro-stabilised 2d6 HE will red mist infantry units. It's not as good against tanks, but it does do d3 pins against them, as opposed to just the one that an AT gun does, which can prove almost as useful. Kit it out with a pintle MMG and cancel thin sides and it'll only cost 245pts.

You've mentioned this before, and I like the idea. That being said, I'm hesitant to create a list at this level without some form of AT gun in a list at 1000pts or above. It's probably my lack of exposure to the game, as it's played, but until I have some experience I'll probably stick to an AT gun. I would probably take a 105mm over anything smaller than a 76.

That's why you always pay the 10pts for recce. It's an invulnerable save that you don't have to even roll. The trick is to make sure it's one of the first units you activate, so you get to dole out all the hurt it can before someone draws a bead on it and forces the recce move. Points for point, it's probably the best US tank in the game. A veteran light recce tank with the ability to put out d6 HE and 7 HMG/MMG shots for 225pts really is a no-brainer. By the way, it's no faster than a Sherman, even though it should be.

The 225pt price-tag is really what gets me on this choice. I have the same output as a Sherman 75mm at roughly 84% of the cost, freeing up 42 points. In a 1k game, that's that's about 1/24th of the army. It doesn't seem like a lot, but that's an extra MMG team (a shitty one, though) or possible bumping some small units to vet. Just seems like a better investment.

Oh, and I meant more mobile than the AT gun, but yeah, an M24 should be faster.

On the other hand, if you want something cheap and cheerful the M3 Stuart is a good choice. I've had a lot of success with my USMC Stuart. A light AT gun and three MMGs on a regular recce tank for 135pts is excellent value. Lately I have leaned towards the lighter, cheaper tanks with a few MMGs that can dish out lots of pins on infantry units.

It's not a bad thought.... if it weren't so damn ugly, anyway. :grin:

Have you looked at playing at 1250pts? My group have been playing at that for a while now, and it really is the sweet spot. Throwing in that maxed out tank doesn't feel so bad, and it lets you take a couple of units you might not normally consider.

That'll probably be the next evolution, but 1k is just enough for me to manage with school, volunteer and crap. I imagine, though, with my lists tending to lean to the more elite, I'd add more rangers, vet engineers or vet infantry before I bumped my tanks. Then again...... dat M26, doh.

 

[Khorne's Fist]

It's not a bad thought.... if it weren't so damn ugly, anyway.

It's like some of those internet puppies, so ugly they are actually cute.

When it comes to tanks and whether to take them or not, I've found it comes down to your local meta. The biggest tank I come up against is a T34/85, and my taking a medium tank I'm playing into his hands by providing a target for that heavy AT gun. I have found that if it has nothing to shoot at that big gun is rendered pretty much useless, and he's spent 235pts on 2 MMGs in a mobile pill box. In short, if in doubt, ignore the tanks and just pile your infantry onto the objectives. In my latest game the two light AT guns I had on the Stuart and an M8 were more than enough to put pins on my opponents tank, causing him to fail a few initiative rolls, so sitting out three turns of the game.