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Imperial Guard or Space Marines

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I want yo start 40 (I'm currently painting up an Uruk-hai army for conflict) but I cant choose which army. :?

Either
Imperial Guard or...

Space marines (I can't choose the chapter)

I need serious help.

PLEASE :( :( :(

(do the poll or suggest something with reason why).
 

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Space marines are infinitely cooler. I play both Black Templars space marines and the Cadian 8ths Guard regiment.

I suggest space marines from a modeling standpoint, because they are much easier to decorate and customize because of the amount of ceremony that exists within the chapters.
 

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I prefer Imperial Guard. You can have just as much variation with IG models (even more when considering the inclusion of Valks and other FW goodies), and your gameplay can vary just as much. The army is a little more difficult to master, and paint, but is infinitely more rewarding when you do well in a tourney that rewards originality and skill as well as general butt-kickery.

So far, since the year 2000, I have traded off or sold over 12000pts of Marines and another 3000+pts of Daemonhunters, but my 3000+pts of IG are still my go-to army.

My IG has yet to lose to a Loyalist Marine army (since 2001 when they were first started), and has only lost once to a Chaos Marine army (Slanneshi Daemon Bomb w/ Siren Prince in a full-game nightfight scenario during tourney play :cry: )
 

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Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
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Imperial Guard, they are a lot more customisable than SM's imho, greater mini range and with Apoc coming out a large amount of new armour coming out.

Plus every new player plays SM's. Be different - stand out from the crowd.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks that's what I was thinking. I already got a heavy weapon guy for the IGs because I told a friend I did warhammer, but instead of getting lotr I got 40k. I think Imperial Guard are the way to got.

I also here that they have more powerful weapons.
Is this true?
 

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I would say Guard for the following reasons...

... With the regimental doctrines and a bit of imagination you can have regiment and their home world that are all yours.

... The variety of play afforded to you. Infantry or tanks, drop troops vs. infiltrators. there are so many options its fantastic.

... Conversion possibilities modding your tanks making your heavy weapon teams into mini dioramas. As well as officers, veteran squads, etc.

Now I admit I am biased I have two guard armies already, both at about 3K points and I am planning my third. When you line up a guard army, especially an infantry army bristling with heavy weapons, it looks impressive and pretty intimidating.
 

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The Scarecrow said:
I also here that they have more powerful weapons.
Is this true?
Yes and no. Their basic infantry weapon, the humble lasgun, is technically one of the worst guns in the game. However, with massed fire from guardsmen, it does its job extremely well. Because Guardsmen cost so little (points-wise, at any rate) to field, there's a disproportionate number of heavy weapons on the table-- it's possible to field upwards of 20 in 2000 points. Armour used by the Guard is different from a lot of other races', in that things like Leman Russ MBTs are actually battle tanks, as opposed to primarily inexpensive heavy weapons platforms like Space Marine Predators are. Leman Russ, Hellhounds, and with Apocalypse, Baneblades, are designed to get into the thick of it with guns blazing.
 

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Only problem is that in 4th edition, armour that doesn't skim generally doesn't last too long. A Russ may go into the fray guns blazing, but chances are it isn't coming out in one piece.
 

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I've actually never lost all of my LRMBTs in a single game... But then again, in my usuall 2250 tourney list, I play 3 LRMBTs, 2 Chimeras, and 2 Sentinels. Combined with 6 Missile Launchers, 3 Autocannons, a few deepstriking Meltaguns and a Demo Charge, the enemy armor and heavy weapons usually don't last long enough to completely rid me of mine.
 

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It's really a question of making sure it has the appropriate upgrades (namely, Extra Armour and smoke launchers) and ensuring that you cover its flanks with supporting infantry. A Leman Russ is extremely dangerous in skilled hands, and AV14 in the front means you're going to need meltaguns to reliably bring it down-- even Lascannons only glance on a 5, and those aren't great odds, really. As for coming out in one piece... remember, it's awfully hard to penetrate AV14, barring melta weapons, and then there's still that handy dandy hit table that means half the penetrating hits won't destroy it, and only one glance will. Yes, you may lose the battle cannon, but you've got a stubber and three heavy bolters to back it up...right? If not, consider putting the sponsons on-- they're ten points, and they're great in a pinch. And oddly enough, sometimes you're going to do more damage to an infantry squad with the heavy bolters and stubber than you are with the battle cannon, so it's good to have that choice.
 

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If you're torn, pick up either daemonhunters or witchhunters. That way you can legally field an army that can take either SM or IG, depending on how you're feeling. Take daemonhunters if you play someone who plays chaos, cause you'll beat their ass, and take witchhunters if you like the idea of beating down heretics. They can also be combined w/ each other.
 

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While it is technically possible to score a hit and a wound on a termie, the odds (not to mention the armor saves) are so stacked up against you that it's hard. I mean, stat wise half of the guardsmen will miss trying to hit anyway, cause of BS 3, and then you have to compare the strength of a lasgun vs the toughness of a termie. Fives or sixes I believe. THen, all they have to do is roll 2 or higher, and they're fine!
 

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Yay math-hammer!
If you want to break things into raw percentage, then here's how it goes.

Imperial Guardsmen fire 100 lasgun shots at a T4 model with a 2+ armor save.
50 Lasgun shots hit.
16.67 (17) wound.
2+ armor saves roughly 84% of the time.
Of those 17 wounds, 13 save, so there are four casualties.

HOWEVER

The dice gods are utterly and completely fickle, and Nixon said it best: There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. I've seen ten conscripts kill five terminators with rapid-firing lasguns. Similarly, the other week, I shot five bolters at 24'' against Deathwing Terminators, hit five times, wounded five times, and then saw (you guessed it!) five ones. Don't read too much into the statistics. While they're generally good to go on, if you make someone roll enough dice, especially Chessex dice (which are rather poorly made, as research has shown, and come up on a 1 something like 28% of the time instead of the 16.667% that a theoretically perfectly balanced die will have for each facing), terminators WILL die.


Statistics are, in my experience, far more useful for breaching armour and dealing with close combat, where there are very little or large enough numbers of dice being thrown to actually see the statistics come into play. When you have ten guardsmen shooting at 12'' out, there aren't really enough dice to get a good sample to weigh against the statistics.
 

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indeed the dice gods are fickle, about a month ago I had I guardsmen with a lasgun, rapid fire and kill 2 terminators, looks like he blasted Mathammer in the face with that one :lol:
 

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I would go with guard, you can basically do what you like with them.

Also with regards to math hammer, you can guarentee that if you say have 12 shots at something and after all is said and rolled you've only scored one wound, that one wound is harder to save even on a 2+ than if you had to roll 4 2+s or is that just the way it seems
 
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