[Mossy Toes]

I'm more than a little peeved. All distort-weapons now Strength D, including the Wraithknight close combat weapon, squads of Wraithguard toting S-D guns, now...

And jetbikes still an obscenely cheap 17 points: look, I'm about as expensive as a Tactical Marine, but 5x as fast with better guns and every member of my squad can buy a many-shot S6 weapon (that has rending or twin-links everyone else)! Hah, aren't I a laugh!

Just a bit fuming about the Eldar details that have surfaced. I can't help but wonder at GW's thought processes, there, because I'm honestly baffled.

"So, Eldar are the most mobile and second-shootiest army in the game. You know what they need? Half a dozen Destroyer-strength weapons, and turning their (still dirt-cheap, incredibly mobile) jetbikes into even more of a game-dominating and game-breaking unit. Yeah, that sounds about right."

Yeah, I'm bitter. I got some free Bloodletters once enemies kill half my army, and oh, I can kill off my Warlord to summon a Bloodthirster who kills himself for two turns before he can do anything. Eldar upgrade from "most rending shooting handfuls of S6 shooting and mobile army" to "most rending shooting handfuls of S6 and S-Destroyer shooting mobile army."

GW could not have picked an army that needed more comprehensive nerfs across the board to comprehensively buff across the board. I realize my ire is up and the codex isn't even out--hell, Wave Serpents might be utter trash, now!--but Dark Gods of the Warp, this is a bitter pill.

 

[AresXero]

it seems pretty powerful now but, have we seen points cost, are scatter lasers for every jetbike; or 1 per X models in a unit like every other special weapon, have the changed the range of the D weapons, is battle focus the same, is bladestorm still going to be psudo rending, until we actually see the codex and special rules its not like we can have any truly informed opinion about it.

We also get this with pretty much every codex release, x is too powerful, y is so bad, but gernally about a week after release people realise it isnt so bad and have found ways to counter it.

thats my 2 cents anyway

 

[Nordicus]

I'll reserve judgement until after it is released - I already hate Eldar with a passion, so if it is as powerful as they seem, then it doesn't change much for me; I simply won't play them.

Let's see what it ends up with.

 

[Moriouce]

I'm withAresXero. I guess it is one scatter laser or shuriken cannon per 3 jetbikes as it use to be. And for the D weapons. It would not be the first time people have mixed Destroyer weapons and Distortion weapons togheter.

 

[neferhet]

No guys, actual rules from WD, screenshot under my eyes, says "every jetbike can..." etc.
Anyway, Mossy "Can we talk about the new Eldar?": No. I don't want to.

 

[Xabre]

I'm more than a little peeved. All distort-weapons now Strength D, including the Wraithknight close combat weapon, squads of Wraithguard toting S-D guns, now...

Iyanden Wraithforces can't exist purely anymore. Nothing in 7E offers 'makes this unit Troops' and the Craftworld Warhost demands at least one Farseer, 1 Vyper, 3 Guardians/Storm Guardians/Jetbikes. If you go Jetbikes, you also must take one Warlock. THEN in order to get Wraithguard, you must also take 1 Knight, 1 Lord, 1 Spirit Seer, to get your first 3 Wraithguard/Blade squads.

And jetbikes still an obscenely cheap 17 points: look, I'm about as expensive as a Tactical Marine, but 5x as fast with better guns and every member of my squad can buy a many-shot S6 weapon (that has rending or twin-links everyone else)! Hah, aren't I a laugh!

Laser Lock has been removed. To get those bikes with 4 shots, you're 27 points each.
@Moriouce & @AresXero They ARE every bike upgradeable (though RAW I'd say NOT the Windrider Warlocks), that's been confirmed. So yes, for 270 points you could run 10 scatter or shuricannon or both. GW will probably only provide one of each per kit, however, and I know that in order to play what I want, I'll probably continue running 1 or 2 per squad.



Personally, speaking as a newbie Eldar player, my biggest disappointment was the Warhost. I don't like the Decurion because it restricts my model selections, and that means I'll be using a CAD. So I lose out on whatever fun rules they're suggesting. Or I have to buy a third Crimson Hunter. The artificial taxes mean I lose some of the creativity I liked, but I can hope that Vypers got better (since they're the new Tomb Blades).

 

[venomlust]

The changes sound pretty dumb, but I just don't have the energy to be frustrated about them. Instead I just laugh, shake my head, and say "of course."

I'll never play in a big tournament most likely, and out of the 5 people I play against, only one has a minor force of Eldar that he uses as allies with Tau. He wants to get a few new jetbikes, which I don't have a problem with. Plus, I already lose against him, so it's not like I'm expecting anything different. With the proper Daemonkin list I think I still have a chance.

The whole issue is funny to me, because some people think the Daemonkin book is overpowered. *shrug* Whaddya gonna do? The lamest part about this whole thing is that an Eldar player who just wants to use his/her models will be turned down for games, whether or not they're trying to sling limburger. What are they supposed to do, buy a whole new set of crappy units just so their opponents will approve? Not like they're the ones rewrote the book.

For the most part, I'm down to play any list even if I know I'm going to lose. This is because I'm usually playing against a friend, and regardless of the outcome we're going to be laughing about the ridiculous events during the match and having a good time. Observing other people play, I've maybe seen one or two lists in my extremely casual 2 years of playing the game that I would just say "fuck off, dude" to. Most people seem to have a similar attitude of wanting to build a strong list, but still being somewhat fluffy and not wanting to go overboard on cheesy units because generally, people want to make friends and aren't complete asswipes.

 

[the_barwn]

It would seem with the d-weapons damage tables again gw is going back to rt/2nd ed for its rules refresh....
I will look at the codex when it comes out but I just want to play the units that I think are fun to use & will not be using any kind of special formation. I hope this means that fw will update shadow spectres rules too or they get a nod in the codex

 

[neferhet]

The whole issue is funny to me, because some people think the Daemonkin book is overpowered. *shrug*

:shok: just...how...it's basically an allied army of khorne csm + daemons with a good table instead of a crippling one...

 

[venomlust]

Because of Blood Tithe buffs. Apparently a 5+ FNP is ridiculous, even though you need 3 points, which are probably going to come from dead daemonkin units. A matter of perspective, I guess.

 

[Nordicus]

Apparently a 5+ FNP is ridiculous, even though you need 3 points, which are probably going to come from dead daemonkin units. A matter of perspective, I guess.

 

[Nordicus]

Because of Blood Tithe buffs. Apparently a 5+ FNP is ridiculous, even though you need 3 points, which are probably going to come from dead daemonkin units. A matter of perspective, I guess.

(My previous post disappeared for some reason. Not quite sure why... if it appears again and this post is here twice, then go ahead and delete one of them mods.)

 

[Vaz]

Hey, look at that xenos getting some love.

Is that the sound of the internet being made wrong in every way since about midway through 3rd edition?

 

[MidnightSun]

"Muh Gargantuan Wraithknights breaking muh game"

1. The Wraithknight is fucking *huge*, it should be a Gargantuan.

2. So it gains IWND and Feel No Pain, but apart from that, what does Gargantuan actually give it? It already has the 12" move which is huge. With Scatter Lasers losing Las-Lock, I'm not sure about it.

3. Imperial Knights are a thing and they've hardly busted the game wide open. In fact, Knights are actually kinda easy to kill for a lot of armies (I usually lose mine in short order, generally in one turn of focussed fire. It's really not difficult).

"Wraithcannons StrD ermahgurd"

When does that actually make a difference? Chances are your tanks weren't surviving barrages of Str10 AP2 fire anyway, your infantry don't care because they're either one-wound or multiple wound but lower than T6 (it counters Reanimation, but I think that's a good thing), and it insta-killed on 6s as well as putting a bunch of wounds onto monsters. So yeah, sure, now you can kill a 6-wound monster with a 5-man squad of Wraithguard, but I really don't think it's actually a huge step up.

 

[Creon]

Dscythes weren't STR:10 in the previous codex. Wraithcannon at D? I could probably swallow that. 10 D flamers dropping out of a Serpent and erasing anyone or anything nearby? If that's the case, which it may or may not be, welcome back old Transcendant CTAN effects. *sigh* I can only hope a Dscythe isn't a D weapon.

 

[Serpion5]

Ehh, I'm going to reserve judgement. Ever since the previous eldar codex gw have been reasonably good at balancing them.

I can't imagine these things will be without drawbacks.

 

[Moriouce]

Ehh, I'm going to reserve judgement. Ever since the previous eldar codex gw have been reasonably good at balancing them.

I can't imagine these things will be without drawbacks.

Like everything guardian-based going back to WS/BS 3.

 

[Xabre]

The D-Scythes were never listed as Distort weapons, were they? They were just sexy template weapons?

 

[MidnightSun]

Dscythes weren't STR:10 in the previous codex. Wraithcannon at D? I could probably swallow that. 10 D flamers dropping out of a Serpent and erasing anyone or anything nearby? If that's the case, which it may or may not be, welcome back old Transcendant CTAN effects. *sigh* I can only hope a Dscythe isn't a D weapon.

You can't fit 10 D-Scythes in a Wave Serpent anyway, and D-Scythes already demolished *most* targets (I'm pretty sure they also had the 6s are Instant Death rule, so they could even take on Monstrous Creatures without too many problems). Sure, it's a lot nastier than being Str4, of course, but how often is it going to destroy whole units? You can only kill what's under the flamer templates produced by the unit, and that's not a whole lot of guys especially when you're Wraithguard and have bloody great bases blocking your own shooting a lot of the time. Never seen more than two or three D-Scythes in a unit actually get to fire, and even then it's not *super* unlikely that they'll shoot themselves out of range.

As I've said elsewhere, I'm waiting for the full Codex before I cry carnifex.

 

[Mossy Toes]

Supposed codex leaks on BoLS: Wraithknights cost 295 (can switch the ranged D-weapons for a melee D-weapon+shield for free), Wraithguard cost the same, and D-Scythes get -1 on rolls to the Destroyer Table. Wave Serpents cost 110 points, but the Serpent Shield is 24" 2D6 S6 Ignores Cover, One Use Only (plus no laser lock on scatter lasers, anymore).

Some other interesting stuff. Swooping Hawks can Haywire flyers they move over. Banshees ignore I penalty assaulting into cover.

All in all looks like some much needed buffs and nerfs, and it looks pretty fun and balanced... aside from the massed, massive Wraith-D looming over the battlefield alongside jetbikes jetbikes jetbikes spitting out 40 S6 shots with a threat range of 36" per turn for 270 points.

Have posted a link in the Rumors thread.