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deep down......... do you guys think, if the emperor did die, could the imperium still surive and live on.. i mean........ with all the space marines that would fight, and the custodes, no reason to guard would fight side by side with the astartes, and we know the custodes are superior to the astartes......

or once the emperor dies, the imperium dies.............
 

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Bane of Empires
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Once the Emperor dies the Imperium dies. Regardless of how many countless regiments of Imperial Guard or how many hundreds of thousands of worlds the Imperium maintains. No matter how many Astartes, or how many ships of the Imperial Navy, ultimately its solely the Emperor keeping the Imperium together.

Without him there is no Imperium, only Chaos.
 

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Hmmm, I dont disagree with ya CotE on much, but Humanity and Eldar did swell before the Emperor. Yes the Eldar made Slannesh and fell, however there battles with Nids, Orks, and Humanity takes more toll on them than Chaos. Humanity without the Emperors grand design or Astronimica had devolpe Technology that far outdoes what the Imperium possesses now.

I dont really see why the Emperor is needed when all he provides is a lighthouse in the Warp. Sure people can say he keeps the warp at bay, but any Chaos God can overpower the Emperor in Warp might. I put the Hive Mind against the Emperors power since it blacks out the Emperors light. So hes overated, in my humble opponion. (god knows some will crucify this statement...:secret:)

The Necs. Eldar, Orks, Tau, and Nids have all learn to use the warp without the Emperors watchful eyes. Their Races have made contact with Warp beings and still stand (for the most part) uncurroptable. Yet Humanity cant possibly withstand. I think civilization led by Astartes would more than withstand such dark times. I think Mechanicum do well in such a setting too. Humanity will survive. Chaos would run a bit more rampant, but humanity would deal with it. One thing for sure, they wont be shooting all xenos on sight. Without the Impaerial Cult they may even prosper.
 

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Thats just it though Warlock in Training; no Emperor means no astranomicon, means no way of for ships of the Imperium to navigate through the warp beyond short hops. Yes, the dark age of technology did not see use of the Emperor as a beacon, but the people of the time were also unable to cope with the warp storms and rise of psykers caused by the coming birth of Slaanesh.

Hell even the Emperor could not begin his great crusade outside of Sol until after Slaanesh was born and the warp storms throughout the galaxy ended.


If the Emperor dies, then whatever protection he is granting through his will dies with him. That means the hole in the material realm that would otherwise allow the very essence of the warp, and all manner of daemons, would no longer be blocked off and Terra would be lost to the Imperium. With his death, the most significant world of the Imperium dies, after that, how long do you think the rest of the galaxy spanning empire is going to last when Terra is gone, the leadership of nearly all the Imperium wiped out, and no more light of the Emperor to use as a guide through the warp?


Its exactly what the Emperor didn't want; being set up as a god and thousands of years of decline mean that there is an over-reliance on a single being. As Child-of-the-Emperor said, the Emperor dies, the Imperium goes with him simply because of the way it is set up and how things have occurred.
 

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I don't care if this statement is "crucified". It said in the codex that the emporer was mortally or fatally wounded by Horus. Both basically mean the same thing, so the Emp is already dead no matter what he's hooked up to. So I believe the Imperium will live on as it has since Horus struck the Emp down.
 

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Mortally and fatally wounded do not mean dead though; they mean the damage done is or was so bad that there is no chance of recovery, without some form of help the person wounded so will die.

The Emperor has nearly been dead for ten thousand years, not actually dead. The Imperium has not gone on this long without him.
 

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Or has it? I mean really what evidence is their he still lives. You know very well the 1000 Psyker Souls is what empowers the Astronimica thingy, so maybe the Emperor is really dead and the Psykers Souls are is the fire that powers the lighthouse. Their is plenty fluff from a traitors view that the Emp is dead. But the mass loyaltist view say otherwise. Hmmmm... what about the SoB faith? We all know the Emp as a god is BULLSHIT! However the SOB use Faith as a weapon, hell the game reflect this. Hmmmm.... whos to say.

Again though before the Big E, all was well, but after Slannesh 1 of 4 Warp Gods, is the birth to break the physical universe back? Really? I dont know if the Universe will simply collopase if one Alpha Psyker dies. The Imperium will break, yes, but Humanity will go on.
 

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Bane of Empires
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Yes the Eldar made Slannesh and fell, however there battles with Nids, Orks, and Humanity takes more toll on them than Chaos.
Slaanesh constantly drains the souls of all Eldar, and consumes their souls upon death (if unprotected). The Eldar's wars against alien races may not do them any favours, but let us not forget the reason why the Eldar are teetering on the edge of extinction, and why they live their lives as they do; Chaos.

Humanity without the Emperors grand design or Astronimica had devolpe Technology that far outdoes what the Imperium possesses now.
Yet for all their wonderous technology they still fell prey to Chaos (via the Age of Strife). The Emperor is/was the only being capable of guiding humanity as it develops as a psychic race and protect the species as a whole from the depridations of Chaos.

I dont really see why the Emperor is needed when all he provides is a lighthouse in the Warp. Sure people can say he keeps the warp at bay, but any Chaos God can overpower the Emperor in Warp might.
Without the Astronomican there is no Imperium, simple. Without the Emperor there is no Astronomican (or at least nothing to guide and utilise it). The Emperor is even noted as protecting the entire human species from the 'worst depridations of Chaos' - he is the shield and protector of mankind, without him mankind is alone, scattered and leaderless - utterly helpless before the dark gods of Chaos.

The Necs. Eldar, Orks, Tau, and Nids have all learn to use the warp without the Emperors watchful eyes. Their Races have made contact with Warp beings and still stand (for the most part) uncurroptable. Yet Humanity cant possibly withstand. I think civilization led by Astartes would more than withstand such dark times. I think Mechanicum do well in such a setting too. Humanity will survive. Chaos would run a bit more rampant, but humanity would deal with it. One thing for sure, they wont be shooting all xenos on sight. Without the Impaerial Cult they may even prosper.
The Necrons are anti-warp, the Eldar are already a fully evolved psychic race and have restrictions and the path system in place for protection, the Orks are bound by a gesalt-consciousness and are single-minded, the Tau have no major warp presence, and the Tyranids are guided by the Hive Mind. Humanity on the other hand, is slowly evolving towards its psychic potential without any protection or failsafe in place apart from the Emperor. And Chaos is deeply invested and entrenched in humanity more than any other race.

Also take into account that two codices specifically state that when the Emperor dies, the Warp will engulf the material realm.
 

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No one seems to give a simple yes or no answer to this question.

Yes if the Emperor dies the Imperium dies with him and its his powerful psychic mind that keeps the astronomican going. Unfortunately the astronomicon is also failing as there are none capable of understanding its complexity. One day the Astronomicon will fail or the Emperor will die; but I think that day is a very long ways off in the future and if that time comes I believe it would change the very face of the army's of 40K and we will have a new table top war game to play.
 

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Slaanesh constantly drains the souls of all Eldar, and consumes their souls upon death (if unprotected). The Eldar's wars against alien races may not do them any favours, but let us not forget the reason why the Eldar are teetering on the edge of extinction, and why they live their lives as they do; Chaos.
Yes, and yet their still major players in the scheme of things, and Harlequins are immune to Slannesh touch. Hmmmm...



Yet for all their wonderous technology they still fell prey to Chaos (via the Age of Strife). The Emperor is/was the only being capable of guiding humanity as it develops as a psychic race and protect the species as a whole from the depridations of Chaos.
I dont know, Chaos was more Rampant, agreed, however you know full well that their is ALOT of Warp Activity now, evey BL book I read have Daemon Summoning, Alpha Psyker corruption, CSM raiding , or Traitor Guard uprising. Its everywhere now, hes not doing a good job after 1000 years of Choas doing its thing. Ofcourse its easy to argue that with the Big E dead means it would get worse. On a side note, Things like the Interexe (bad with Spelling theses things, from Fulgrim), that Human/Xenos Race that Horus ecountered (before his accident on Davin), and even that last planet the LWs speahead (the one with the false Emperor) only had the one place touch by Chaos, the rest was solid. These few civilazations show that Chaos didnt touch and destroy everything during the Dark times before the Crusade. just saying.

Without the Astronomican there is no Imperium, simple. Without the Emperor there is no Astronomican (or at least nothing to guide and utilise it). The Emperor is even noted as protecting the entire human species from the 'worst depridations of Chaos' - he is the shield and protector of mankind, without him mankind is alone, scattered and leaderless - utterly helpless before the dark gods of Chaos.
Is it me or does this so scream Dictatorship like Kim Jung whats his name :laugh: Seriously, Before he was struck by Horus he did none of this. The HH novels and Primarchs own memories reflect that. Only now he sits on the Porclean Throne does he keep the bad things away? Didnt he even tried to bargain with them :grin: I just find it funny that he did none of this before and only now is it crucial after he nearly dead.

The Necrons are anti-warp, the Eldar are already a fully evolved psychic race and have restrictions and the path system in place for protection, the Orks are bound by a gesalt-consciousness and are single-minded, the Tau have no major warp presence, and the Tyranids are guided by the Hive Mind. Humanity on the other hand, is slowly evolving towards its psychic potential without any protection or failsafe in place apart from the Emperor. And Chaos is deeply invested and entrenched in humanity more than any other race..
All true, however if Humanity reached that lvl as the Eldar have... Sounds like a interesting topic no?

Also take into account that two codices specifically state that when the Emperor dies, the Warp will engulf the material realm.
This is from (my side) Chaos View.



I could say honestly Chaos is the strongest force out there. Just that the Big E isnt the end all for humanity.
 

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description whore
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Imperium is ruled by an emperor, no emperor no imperium.

However, I dont think they would tell the rest of the universe even if he did die. The high lords all know he is the rock the Imperium is built on, so i think it would just be a secret.
 

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Bane of Empires
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Yes, and yet their still major players in the scheme of things, and Harlequins are immune to Slannesh touch. Hmmmm...
Do you really consider them major players on a galactic scale? I don't.

I dont know, Chaos was more Rampant, agreed, however you know full well that their is ALOT of Warp Activity now, evey BL book I read have Daemon Summoning, Alpha Psyker corruption, CSM raiding , or Traitor Guard uprising. Its everywhere now, hes not doing a good job after 1000 years of Choas doing its thing. Ofcourse its easy to argue that with the Big E dead means it would get worse. On a side note, Things like the Interexe (bad with Spelling theses things, from Fulgrim), that Human/Xenos Race that Horus ecountered (before his accident on Davin), and even that last planet the LWs speahead (the one with the false Emperor) only had the one place touch by Chaos, the rest was solid. These few civilazations show that Chaos didnt touch and destroy everything during the Dark times before the Crusade. just saying.
The Age of Strife where ever it is described is always made out to be one of the (if not the) worst ages of Mankind. Granted some colonies thrived during that period, but they are very few and far between. Mankind was described several times (and even by the Emperor himself in The Last Church) as on the edge of extinction during the Age of Strife.

Is it me or does this so scream Dictatorship like Kim Jung whats his name :laugh: Seriously, Before he was struck by Horus he did none of this. The HH novels and Primarchs own memories reflect that. Only now he sits on the Porclean Throne does he keep the bad things away? Didnt he even tried to bargain with them :grin: I just find it funny that he did none of this before and only now is it crucial after he nearly dead.
Actually, the Emperor did run the Astronomican during the Great Crusade. And also presumably still protected humanity from the worst depridations of Chaos pre-Heresy.

All true, however if Humanity reached that lvl as the Eldar have... Sounds like a interesting topic no?
Every generation, as humanity moves another step towards their full psychic potential the threat of Chaos grows ever stronger. And there is one reason why humanity as a whole hasn't already plunged into a nightmare age of slavery and servitude to the Warp; the Emperor.

In fact one only has to look at the Fall of the Eldar to see the consequences of failure.

This is from (my side) Chaos View.
Actually the two codices that directly state that are Codex: Chaos Daemons (granted thats a Chaos Codex!) and Codex: Imperialis (which isn't a Chaos codex). And not that it would really matter if they both were Chaos codices, each codex is written from the perspective of the omnipresent narrator - its just that each codex emphasises the threat posed by that particular race, each are equally true though.

I could say honestly Chaos is the strongest force out there. Just that the Big E isnt the end all for humanity.
Im afraid all evidence points to the Emperor's death being the end for the Imperium.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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No, it will splinter off into smaller multi-system entities but nothing on the scale of the imperium.
 

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the only way i could see for the imperium to survive without the emperor, is if they stop being so afraid/paranoid of technology and create a new way to travel super fast through space without the use of the dangerous warp. if the imperium can accomplish this, then they would probably do pretty well without the emperor. imagine if the imperium wasnt paranoid about tech; you could have hundreds of spare terminator armor with ranged weaponry as powerful as the tau's, millions of more baneblades, more powerful lasguns, faster powerfists, etc. i see that as the only option for success for the imperium if the emperor dies.
 

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The only way the Imperium can survive without the Emperor is if, A) they get over the "Emperor dies= chaos engulfs materium" thing, and B) They can come up with FTL travel that doesn't rely on the Astronomicon. No amount of scientifc advancement, self-awareness, or conviction is going to help the Imperium if chaos engulfs the materium.
 

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It says that when Emperor dies chaos will engulf the galaxy.

Just like that?

My first impression when I read this was that it would be a gradual decline as humanity descended into leaderless anarchy.

Then again, the fall of the eldar happened pretty much "just like that." :scare:
 

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The problem wouldn't actually being the Emperor dying. The real problem would be that if the Emperor did die it would be because the golden throne failed. Without the throne powering the astronomicon there would be no warp travel and the Imperium would crumble.
 

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(Sorry if this has been said before)

If the emperor is physically dead, then surely his willpower will live on? Also, If he's near death, and Guilliman is healing, Guilliman will be able to rule. Maybe the emperor will rape someone/make a clone of himself to rule after he dies.

This is how humans are superior on earth in modern-day: We are intelligent, have long life spans and good breeding abilities.
 
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