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Discussion Starter #1
This happened just yesterday when I was at my GW store, I was thinking of buying a centurian squad and making a captain/force commander with centurian armor. As I was browsing around like a little kid like we all do in there was a game going on.

One guy was playing chaos SM and the other was playing IG with Augumentations. Now normally I'd be 'cool there's bound to be regiments of IG that been augmented with drugs, viruses or genetics' but then the IG player said his Shock Troopers? (IG elite troops) were augmented similar(NOT THE SAME AS A SM) to a SM like having an extra heart and other organs the SM have but far less efficient then the SM organs. This excluded the black carparse I believe although he didn't mention it. Of course am standing they'd like an idiot scratching my head 'whaa? I dont think that's possible Is it?'

I wasn't going to get in that situation. My question is the title lol.
 

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In the day and age of 40K, I can see extra organs put in standard humans. They are given chem mixes that make them go into a rage (like an Eversor assassin). Look at the Mechanicus. They augment their body to become more machine like. They don't start out as all advanced, but gradually work their way up. I can't say that I've read any where that extra organs were implanted, but I can't see why the technology is not there.
As for that guys IG army, if it's his fluff for his own army, I'm perfectly fine with that. However, if he is doing it and boosting the stats of his IG troopers, then that's a huge no go. So fluff wise, yes. Game effecting wise, no.

Edit: I would love to see a hockey themed army. Especially a Detroit Redwings one!
 

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Remember that the Primarchs, and by extension, the Space Marines, were made (supposedly) with the help of Chaos. I can imagine some of the crazier organs, like the Omophagea, are probably outside the realms of current 40k technology.

Tossing in an extra heart or reinforcing their bones is definitely possible.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Here's the thing: Space Marines, and their extra organs make no damn sense. At all. Considering this, I see no reason why a human couldn't have extra organs in the 40k universe.

Pretty widely accepted fluff that's been stated on more than one occasion in the heresy books, and probably other places.

EDIT: Well, it's never been said by anyone on the imperial side or by a neutral party, but it's been hinted at with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I think he used inferior like organs that worked like the SM organs other then the black carparse. From a secondary heart, reinforced bones, Muscle growth, can enter hibernation for a time, learn by eating etc. I just can't grasp how humans can basically have the same organs as SM just in a far less efficient form. If they add this? Why in the hell is this not standard for all IG? Can't be that expensive compared to making warships that are hive cities with massive guns.

On a side, people at my GW Store love making interesting or in this site tongue, Hersey type armies from SM allied with the Tau(Seriously WTF) to Slannesh Deamonettes serving Knorne. Normally I don't think it's a big deal but some of those that come through that door, sometimes your jaw will just drop and go WTF?
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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I think he used inferior like organs that worked like the SM organs other then the black carparse. From a secondary heart, reinforced bones, Muscle growth, can enter hibernation for a time, learn by eating etc. I just can't grasp how humans can basically have the same organs as SM just in a far less efficient form. If they add this? Why in the hell is this not standard for all IG? Can't be that expensive compared to making warships that are hive cities with massive guns.
Ugh….. because most of those things are impossible? It's best not to put too much thought into why or how stuff works in 40k.

Also, the explanation the dude provides, the less efficient thing? Yeah, that's called shitty story telling. Not much else to it.
 

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I think he used inferior like organs that worked like the SM organs other then the black carparse. From a secondary heart, reinforced bones, Muscle growth, can enter hibernation for a time, learn by eating etc. I just can't grasp how humans can basically have the same organs as SM just in a far less efficient form. If they add this? Why in the hell is this not standard for all IG? Can't be that expensive compared to making warships that are hive cities with massive guns.

They can't be the same as the Astartes organs, those require gene-seed and the full implantation process. With Space Marines it's all or nothing.

That said there are still plenty of other augmentations available to members of the Imperium, one thing Imperial science is pretty good at bio tech. So you have enhancing drug cocktails, juvant treatments, bionics, chemical manipulation etc. I could see implanted organs, mechanical or organic, being among these augmentations. They wouldn't however be the same as the Astarte's version, nor work as well.

As to why its not stand its because of scale and logistics. There are billions, perhaps trillions of gaurdsmen. It's simply not possible to augment them all, or even a significant percentage. Remember the guard are recruited from a variety of techbases and the only standard piece of equipment is the lasgun. There would only be a limited number of worlds in the imperium capable of augmenting soldiers like this and its just not practical to ship eery regiment you raise across the galaxy to get augmented. It's more cost effective for the Imperium to raise x-billion soldiers and hurl them into the meat grinder.
 

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Here's the thing: Space Marines, and their extra organs make no damn sense. At all. Considering this, I see no reason why a human couldn't have extra organs in the 40k universe.
Having fail-safes/backup organs which also in conjunction produce more efficient results = makes no sense?
 

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Cruel Commissar
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Here's the thing: Space Marines, and their extra organs make no damn sense. At all. Considering this, I see no reason why a human couldn't have extra organs in the 40k universe.


Pretty widely accepted fluff that's been stated on more than one occasion in the heresy books, and probably other places.

EDIT: Well, it's never been said by anyone on the imperial side or by a neutral party, but it's been hinted at with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.
The source, AKA where it is mentioned would be nice.
 

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The source, AKA where it is mentioned would be nice.
In False Gods when Horus is shown the scattering he sees spells/prayers written on the primarchs' incubation pods. It is mentioned a couple of times in The First Heretic if I recall correctly as well. It's also hinted at in A Thousand Sons with regards to the Emperor and his dealings with the chaos gods. In Deliverance Lost when the Emperor shares the secrets of the primarchs with Corax he censors a big part, which hints that he was hiding a part of their creation. Might also be mentions of it in Aurelian, though it has been ages since I read that novella, so I might be mistaken. And there are other hints dropped throughout the series, but I am not gonna search through all the novels right now to check for all of them. Basically, it is a continuous theme throughout the HH series that the primarchs were created with the help of chaos.

Edit: Sorry, got that backwards. It was Argel Tal, during The First Heretic I think who saw the prayers on the pods. When Horus was taken back to the scattering he was told out and out that the Emperor struck a bargain with chaos for the power to make the primarchs. But the point stands, there are continuously hints dropped in various novels that some kind of bargain was struck between the Emperor and chaos in order for the primarchs to be created. Sadly, only the Emperor on the Imperial side can genuinely confirm this, and he off course wouldn't actually admit to making deals with beings he, for centuries, tried to deny existed.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
That's what I thought as much. I didn't think organs could be made like SM that function in a similar fashion.

Do they ever fully explain anything in the Warhammer 40,000K Universe?
 

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I think he used inferior like organs that worked like the SM organs other then the black carparse. From a secondary heart, reinforced bones, Muscle growth, can enter hibernation for a time, learn by eating etc. I just can't grasp how humans can basically have the same organs as SM just in a far less efficient form. If they add this? Why in the hell is this not standard for all IG? Can't be that expensive compared to making warships that are hive cities with massive guns.
Er...having some back ups are ok, but I would ask him to tone down on the number. If they are like krogan, 2 pairs of everything, then even by 40k standards that's farfetched.

That's what I thought as much. I didn't think organs could be made like SM that function in a similar fashion.

Do they ever fully explain anything in the Warhammer 40,000K Universe?
We are talking about scifi books....do they ever fully explain anything?
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Having fail-safes/backup organs which also in conjunction produce more efficient results = makes no sense?
Makes no sense as in space marines are a work of fiction and totally fuckin' impossible. Having a second heart would be cool and all for an average human, at least during period of stress, but shoving an extra heart in a person and getting it to work would be a bit harder than using superglue and staples.
 

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...are a work of fiction and totally fuckin' impossible.
It's not that long ago that the same was said of landing on the moon, heart transplants, laser beams and the internet were considered the same.

Why, oh why must people insist on applying real world principles on a fictional universe?

OT, just look at what the SWs did to Hawser in Prospero Burns. Tore him down and rebuilt him from scratch, rewinding his body about 30 or 40 years and strengthening his skeleton, musculature and brain. Giving someone an extra organ is a piece of piss compared to that.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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When you discover the warp and chaos (fundamental components for the creation of the primarchs and, through them, marines) you come tell me and we'll get to making us some spass mahreens. Space marines are nonsense because their creation depends upon space voodoo, not because a second heart is or is not possible.

That being said, one of the main points of one of my previous points was that there wasn't any point in worrying about the science behind this stuff.
 

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Cruel Commissar
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Well according to The Universe that might exist. I know it's speculative, but it's cutting edge science. I mean it's on Discovery Channel for a reason. Then again I'm a fanboi of that and I have even been stopped from partying by them running a marathon of episodes with a mate. Everything is in flux right now, and remember weare living in the golden age of technology. In the 90's cell-phones weighed kilograms and could only be utilized on top of mountains, now they are commonplace.
 

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We are talking about scifi books....do they ever fully explain anything?
No, it's a very specific story telling technique. The more you explain something, the less you can expand on, or change it later. So by fixing things, you restrict yourself later. That means that the last thing you want to do is fully explain.
 
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