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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all!

I am playing a campaign at my friends store over the next few weeks. Its just a friendly game, with my group of friends! I want to use my Salamanders, but I don't have enough for a complete army. I also have another 'nilla marines army: Sons of the Firemind. They are a codex army, no special stuff. Can I combine elements of the Sons of the Firemind into the Salamanders to make a full list, since they both use the generic lists in Codex: Space Marines? Heres what I mean

HQ
Forgefather Vulkan He'Stan (Salamanders)
SM Captain w/ Command Squad (Sons of the Firemind)

ELITES
Terminator Assault Squad (Salamanders)
Sternguard Veteran Squad (Sons of the Firemind) w/ Razorback
Dreadnought (Salamanders)

TROOPS
Tactical Squad (Salamanders)
Tactical Squad (Sons of the Firemind)
Tactical Squad (Sons of the Firemind)
Scout Squad (Sons of the Firemind)

FAST ATTACK
Bike Squad (Sons of the Firemind)
Vanguard Veteran Squad (Salamanders)
Land Speeder Storm (Sons of the Firemind)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Land Raider Crusader (Sons of the Firemind)
Vindicator (Sons of the Firemind)
Devastator Squad (Salamanders)


Could I do this? I couldn't find any rule saying you can't. You can see why I want to do this, I lack alot of Salamanders models. As far as the Sons getting He'Stan's bonuses, only the LRC has a multi-melta.
 

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If they are both from C:SM, there should be no problem using them together. If one has a special codex, I am not sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Nope, they both use the basic Codex for Space Marines. The only special rule that comes into play is Forgefather Vulkan He'Stan's Chapter Tactics:

All Thunder hammers count as master crafted
All Flamer and melta weapons count as twin linked.

And like I said, I don't think the Sons of the Firemind have any of the above, with the exception of the multi-melta on the LRC

Thats it.
 

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They are simply painted differently... they arent 2 seperate armies just 1 army in 2 colour schemes. The only problems you have is that Vulkan's rules affect all of the army, so none of the marines have combat tactics and you might want to come up with some sort of storyline/fluff to give yourself a narrative as to why the army is formed from 2 different chapters.
 

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The background can be as simple as Vulkan came to the planet to search for the clues that will lead him to his primarch and found their task force in orbit
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Indeed Tim/Steve, that is a small problem, since as I stated, almost nothing from the Sons of the Firemind will gain from He'Stan's bonus.

I already have the fluff set, Salamanders and Sons of the Firemind both touch down on the same planet, drawn for different reasons. The Salamanders believe the Tome of Fire has directed the Forgefather to another of the Primarchs lost artifacts. The Sons of Firemind are drawn because they know Ahriman and a warband of Thousand Sons and other factions have taken refuge on the planet. (The Sons of the Firemind are a homebrew chapter that are directly descended from the Thousand Sons, but they despise their Traitor brethren.) The Space Wolves, hearing that their hated enemy is on the planet, set out to engage. Seeing the Chapter reportedly spawned from them fighting furiously against the traitors, with no psychic powers, the Space Wolves join the fight against the Chaos Marines.(The Wolves also want to test the loyalty of the Sons firsthand).
A Imperial Guard Regiment, Cadian, has the dubious honor of being smack in the middle of it all.
So its Salamanders/Sons of the Firemind, Space Wolves and Imperial Guard against 3 Factions of CSM, Thousand Sons, Black Legion, and Emperor's Children.

Since that was settled, it was very important to find out if I could combine to basic codex chapters, otherwise we would have to scrap this scenario and start over.
 

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To play it as 1 army you have to pick from 1 force org chart and your selections above all fit in.

As you have Vulkan all your units gain his advantages even the MM on the LRC. However all your units including Sons of the Firemind also lose the combat tactics special rule, no great loss really.

This way of choosing armies in central to the game to stop unscrupulous players painting units differently to gain advantages from different codices.

In your case I don't think it makes much difference at all though, game away.
 

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As long as they are from the same codex which they are its completely legal the only difference is paint.
 

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Indeed Tim/Steve, that is a small problem, since as I stated, almost nothing from the Sons of the Firemind will gain from He'Stan's bonus.
Yup... you ninja'd me on that one: you stated 3mins before I posted, and it took me longer then that to type my response :p
Its not really Vulkan's bonus though that you have to care about, its the loss of combat tactics- while a lot of people think that its a pretty terrible ability a lot of experienced gamers (me included) think that its immense. It lets you escape from situations that you simply cant win, or to dodge enemies that want to charge you...
a few examples:
1: in combat with an enemy dreadnaught- you should only lose by 1 a turn but staying locked will eventually kill your entire unit unless you are hellishly lucky.
2: if called upon to take a morale test for 25% shooting casualities that'll take you out of assault range of a beefy enemy unit, meaning it cannot assault you, multi-assault other units and must just stay where it is (no charge+consolidation to get into a better position).
... there are numerous other times when failing Ld tests is actually very useful, especially for marines since ATSKNF is such an incredible ability.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hmm....I never thought of Combat Tactics as being that important, but in those instances it would be. I CAN switch out He'Stan to my Salamanders Chaplain w/ jump pack, but I can't change the loadouts for the Salamanders, so none of the TH, flamer or melta weapons get the bonus.....will it be worth it?
 

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Hmm....I never thought of Combat Tactics as being that important, but in those instances it would be. I CAN switch out He'Stan to my Salamanders Chaplain w/ jump pack, but I can't change the loadouts for the Salamanders, so none of the TH, flamer or melta weapons get the bonus.....will it be worth it?
Not really- Vulkan is a great boost to your army but you do have to build the army to match him (as you have here). Combat Tactics is great and often overlooked but it isnt the best ability in the book... but far too many people just totally overlook it and move straight to the SCs.
If you hadn't designed this list to work with Vulkan then it would certainly be better to have a standard captain- a rerolll on 3-4 meltas and a flamer or 2 certainly isnt worth the loss of Combat Tactics.
 
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