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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, so here it goes.
1. In a Crusader squad, every Initiate has a Boltgun and a Bolt pistol.
2. An Initiate may take a weapon from the Special Weapons list.
3. SPECIAL WEAPONS list says "A model may replace his Melee weapon or boltgun with one of the following".

So a friend of mine debates he can treat a Bolt pistol as a Melee weapon for the purposes of this replacement, thus leaving an Initiate to wield both a Bolter and a Flamer at the same time.

I dug through the Corebook and:
- it only mentions that you can treat Pistol as a CCW for purposes of fighting;
- it lists Pistol as one of the shooting Types;
- It does not name a pistol a Melee weapon, but for purposes of a close combat it suggests to use an alternative weapon profile that has Melee Type listed in it;
- it lists a Bolt pistol specifically in the Boltguns section of a Ranged weapons Appendix.

Sooo it is kind of a stretch but what if "A model may replace his Melee weapon or boltgun" means not THE boltgun-bolgun, but ANY weapon of a boltgun subtype?

Or do I read it correctly and you cannot keep the Boltgun if you pick a Flamer? Help me with my nitpicking please :)

Thanks in advance!
 

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Check the Wargear list for Space Marine codex.

If Pistol isn't an option, it's not a melee weapon. As you said, pistol is a ranged weapon. The Pistol rule is what lets it work in close combat, but it's never a melee weapon for purposes of replacement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Okay, then there's another problem. For a Bike Squad:
- "Any model may replace its bolt pistol with a chainsword"
- "Up to two Space Marine Bikers may each take one item from the Special Weapons list".
- "The unit may include one Attack Bike"
- "Wargear: Heavy bolter (Attack Bike only)"

Chainsword IS a Melee weapon as per its entry in the "MELEE WEAPONS OF THE 41st MILLENNIUM" from the Corebook. Does that mean that I can first replace a pistol with a chansword and then replace a chainsword with a Special weapon, thus having a Bike with both, say, a Heavy bolter and a Flamer?

The reason I am asking is not because I am trying to read the rules to my benefit but because I need to understand why this is strictly NOT the case (is it?).
 

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I think I have an answer:

First up, Attack Bikes and Space Marine Bikers are two different things, as seen in the unit profile table, i.e

Space Marine Biker
Biker Sergeant
Biker Veteran Sgt
Attack Bike

Just because the sergeant is a space marine on a bike doesn't mean he falls under the "Up to two Space Marine Bikers may each take one item from the Special Weapons list" clause, as you can see, that is for Space Marine Bikers only. Apologies for labouring the point, but I can see the confusion.

So I believe that's heavy bolters and flamers on the same model ruled out.

Secondly:

One thing you'll notice about space marine bikers is that they don't actually have boltguns, as it's part of the space marine bike. Ergo to fit the "A model may replace his Melee weapon or boltgun with one of the following" clause, a biker needs a melee weapon to trade for it, which is where trading the bolt pistol for a chainsword (a valid melee weapon) comes in.

As bikers are relentless, and with rapid fire you can fire relentless and charge, bolt pistols are effectively redundant on bikers, but it is a curiosity to note that bikers with special weapons effectively don't have bolt pistols.

That's my understanding of it all anyway, please feel free to poke holes in my logic!

Regardless, hope it helps.
 

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I think I have an answer:

First up, Attack Bikes and Space Marine Bikers are two different things, as seen in the unit profile table, i.e

Space Marine Biker
Biker Sergeant
Biker Veteran Sgt
Attack Bike

Just because the sergeant is a space marine on a bike doesn't mean he falls under the "Up to two Space Marine Bikers may each take one item from the Special Weapons list" clause, as you can see, that is for Space Marine Bikers only. Apologies for labouring the point, but I can see the confusion.

So I believe that's heavy bolters and flamers on the same model ruled out.

Secondly:

One thing you'll notice about space marine bikers is that they don't actually have boltguns, as it's part of the space marine bike. Ergo to fit the "A model may replace his Melee weapon or boltgun with one of the following" clause, a biker needs a melee weapon to trade for it, which is where trading the bolt pistol for a chainsword (a valid melee weapon) comes in.

As bikers are relentless, and with rapid fire you can fire relentless and charge, bolt pistols are effectively redundant on bikers, but it is a curiosity to note that bikers with special weapons effectively don't have bolt pistols.

That's my understanding of it all anyway, please feel free to poke holes in my logic!

Regardless, hope it helps.
Give this man a cookie. Which he may not replace with a chainsword.
 
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