[chrisman 007]

I'm a little confused. In the codex, cadians have 7 doctrines. Does this mean my cadians get 7 doctrines?

 

[Triumph Of Man]

Yes, only if you use that particular set of 7 though.

 

[chrisman 007]

Oh. Right. That complicates things.

 

[Hespithe]

Yeah... It's cool, if you play pure fluffy Cadians. If not, but you use the Cadian models, you'll then be limited to the usual allotment of 5 doctrines.

Or, like me, just don't use them at all. I love my un-doctrined army! Bunch of rogues, we are. All hail Colonel Percival G. Butts and the Mordian Paramilitary!

 

[chrisman 007]

So we can if we use the preset ones?

 

[Morgal]

So we can if we use the preset ones?

Yes, but it is best if your army matches what is described...so don't have catchan models and use the cadian doctrines.

 

[chrisman 007]

Ah, I see. Thanks people.

 

[Bishop120]

Yeah basically if you use the "Preset" or "Pre-built" armies you can have more than the standard 5 doctrines. If you decide you dont like any of the prebuilts then you can build your own but will only get to use 5 doctrines. Tho reading over the prebuilts I cant really imagine to many occasions when Id want to build my own. Maybe for small games against known armies but other wise the prebuilts are fairly good.

As also said; if your going to use a pre-built army make sure you use their models for WYSIWIG reasons. If your opponent doesnt mind then you can use other builds/models but I think it best to stick with what they were intended for.

 

[Triumph Of Man]

Yeah basically if you use the "Preset" or "Pre-built" armies you can have more than the standard 5 doctrines. If you decide you dont like any of the prebuilts then you can build your own but will only get to use 5 doctrines. Tho reading over the prebuilts I cant really imagine to many occasions when Id want to build my own. Maybe for small games against known armies but other wise the prebuilts are fairly good.

Some of them are alright, but they're certainly not the best. You can get better combinations for your average gunline army by using the 5 to mix and match.

For example, if you want to use Light Infantry, your only choice out of the presets is Tanith and Tallarn. And neither of these have what is debatably the best doctrine, Iron Discipline (and even if you disagree, you have to agree it's highly cost effective and easily in the top 5).

 

[Bishop120]

Yeah Ill have to agree that Iron Discipline is pretty good doctrine. Carapace armor is the one doctrine that needs to be in any home built army though. Unless your fighting another IG army its almost imperative to have that 4+ AS.

 

[Triumph Of Man]

Yeah Ill have to agree that Iron Discipline is pretty good doctrine. Carapace armor is the one doctrine that needs to be in any home built army though. Unless your fighting another IG army its almost imperative to have that 4+ AS.

Actually for the cost, I find it's generally agreed to be one of the worst doctrines unless you're a drop troops player. For example in my standard 1500pts army, I'd have to shell out 200pts for it (10 units), that's more than a Tank!

It'd be ok if you could selectively put it on a couple of units (that aren't rough riders), but what really hurts is that I have to stick it on the units that I want to die. That and using cover is free, and Cameoline is half the price.

 

[Bishop120]

Yeah but the tank can die to a single lascannon shot. Think of all the troops that will be saved by the 4+ armor? Your army will live nearly twice as long with the 4+ armor over the 5+ which will be negated by nearly every ranged weapon on the board. I've played against 4 diffrent people who thought that numbers was better than the 4+ save and I beat every single one of them hands down no contest wooped them. A single round of bolter fire from a ten man tactical squad can either kill a unit of guardsmen or break them and make them run. It actually works out better for space marines to gun down guardsmen with 5+ armor saves because it ignores their armor rather than letting them have it in CC.

 

[Triumph Of Man]

Yeah but the tank can die to a single lascannon shot.

The tank was to put perspective of the cost.

Think of all the troops that will be saved by the 4+ armor? Your army will live nearly twice as long with the 4+ armor over the 5+ which will be negated by nearly every ranged weapon on the board.

See that's the problem with your thinking, the IG generally aren't so worried about dieing at a range. That's fine because generally they can make their opponent die at a faster rate.

CC? Now yeah that's where we get worried, and it's because we can't fight back with any amount of extreme efficiency here. So it's imperative the enemy gets torn to shreds before this stage, and if you're spending more than 10% of your points into something that's not gonna be shooting, on top of your command structure, then that's gonna be a little bit harder.

The fact is, Carapace's cost and it's situational benefits is what keeps it in the dark. Sure, it might come up trumps against Tau, but it's going to be fairly useless against an assault geared army. Orks for example care little about your 4+ save when they have 120 attacks to hit you with.

I've played against 4 diffrent people who thought that numbers was better than the 4+ save and I beat every single one of them hands down no contest wooped them. A single round of bolter fire from a ten man tactical squad can either kill a unit of guardsmen or break them and make them run. It actually works out better for space marines to gun down guardsmen with 5+ armor saves because it ignores their armor rather than letting them have it in CC.

Them's fighting words, , want to try it over vassal?

 

[Bishop120]

I would if I could ever figure out Vassal.

Id love to see how your IG work against my Ultramarines/Grey Knights

 

[Triumph Of Man]

It's not that hard , Jez has a tutorial for opening the program in the vassal section. Then learning how to use it comes easy if you just talk to a couple of people and fiddle with the buttons.

 

[The Son of Horus]

I've found Carapace armour to be worth it's weight in gold. Then again, I'm a Space Marine player, and anything that stops my bolters from sailing right through your troopers is probably not a bad thing. When you consider that a staggering number of things are AP5 in the game, just getting an armor save seems to be worthwhile. Unlike Orks, whose 'Ardboyz aren't worth it in the slightest since the object is to bring massed choppas, guardsmen are actually decent all-rounders if you issue the proper equipment. The really funny thing is that it doesn't actually significantly cut down the number of men you have on the table.

 

[chrisman 007]

I like carapce armour. I played at my club with against tau and got butchered because I had no carapace armour. Gave him a rematch, this time using Harakoni warhawk doctrine. Easy meat!

 

[The Son of Horus]

I think it's probably even more important than normal to have it against the Tau, since they KILL guardsmen on 2's with pulse rifles.

 

[Bishop120]

Whats nasty about Tau is they have whole squads who can take the Burst Cannon. Thats a lot of splatter if you dont have carapace armor. Seriously.. only 180pts for 6 guys to come up and offload 18 Str5 AP5 shots and they jump away so that you cant see/shoot them. Tau eat guard who dont have carapace.

 

[chinnfrequent]

Yes there are a lot of AP5 guns. That's what cover is for.