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Discussion Starter #1
Because EVERYTHING runs Psychers these days, and I can...

HQ: 110
Emporer's Champion - Abhor the Witch

Troops: a lot
Crusader Squad - 5x Initiates; 3x CC, 1x Pfist, 1x Melta. (105)
/\ Trans /\ -- LRC w/smoke. (268)
Crusader Squad - 5x Initiates; 3x CC, 1x Pfist, 1x Melta. (105)
/\ Trans /\ -- LRC w/smoke. (268)
Support Squad - 5x Bolter Marines. (80)
/\ Trans /\ --RzBck TwinLinkLC, Searchlight. (91)
Support Squad - 5x Bolter Marines. (80)
/\ Trans /\ --RzBck TwinLinkLC, Searchlight. (91)

HS : 300
Vindicator - PotMS. (155)
Trilas Pred - Searchlight. (146)

Total - 1497

Only 21 marines, and if I owned another vindy it'd go in over the 4th troops choice, and those points would give me another CC marine in each LRC squad; but w/ever.
Also, I know Accept Any Challenge is a strictly superior vow in most cases, but I can use the extra 30 pts elsewhere when only 11 guys will ACTUALLY benefit from re-rolls, whereas if they are pimpin a psycher of any kinda I get 5+ immunity and an extra D6" of closer-to-MM-range.

C&C is demanded. GO!
 

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Two major problems I have with this list, the vow and the squad sizes.

While the extra D6 movement and a 5+ save against psychic powers is nice (the movement is also affected by crusader seals :biggrin:) against an army that relies on psychic powers it wont be that effective.

The two main armies that I see that use them are chaos lash lists and farseer eldar lists. The fact that all of your units are in transports makes lash almost useless anyway, and against eldar the only powers you can stop (only a 1/3 chance at that) are doom, mind war and eldritch storm. While stopping those is nice he can still use fortune (the most annoying one) or guide (this on bladestorming dire avengers is lethal).

With regards to the small squads I just dont think they willl have enough survivability in combat or enough hitting power to do too much once they get in, the same goes for the bolter squads as well.

That's my opinion anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Two major problems I have with this list, the vow and the squad sizes.
Thanks for the imput!

The real goal of this list was not so-much "screw psychers" as I may have made it sound... the real threat is that I'm putting 2 LRC's that count as troops choices, 2 RzBks with the same effect, a Pred and a Vindy into a 1500 pts game. Honestly, the winner is that I have lots of big guns with scoring capability, and the troops I put inside each are simply as small as they can be (plus, the 2x fists and meltas are cause I had ~50 pts left over and no good way of fighting MC's). I don't expect the squads to ever hit the field, but 2 are equipped so they can (assault ramp, meltas, pfist, and the champ) should something whacky happen.

With the need to take a vow, I was hoping for something that wouldn't be totally wasted, but also not cost me 50 freakin' points. Thus, Abhor the Witch was a neet-o choice, since it applys to EVERY UNIT and keeps me from spending 50 pts to enhance 11 guys. I know it won't help against Lash or Seer's, but it WILL help against something like Thousand Suns (which have psychic anti-tank), Zoanthropes (psychic shooting attack? I'll take a free 5+), or classic Marine Libies.

I agree that the vow is 'kinda' worthless in a majority of situations, but BT have a real ability to go tread heavy/infantry light, and I wanted to abuse that. Thus I see no point in Acpt Any Chlnge in THIS list.
 

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Thanks for the imput!

The real goal of this list was not so-much "screw psychers" as I may have made it sound... the real threat is that I'm putting 2 LRC's that count as troops choices, 2 RzBks with the same effect, a Pred and a Vindy into a 1500 pts game. Honestly, the winner is that I have lots of big guns with scoring capability, and the troops I put inside each are simply as small as they can be (plus, the 2x fists and meltas are cause I had ~50 pts left over and no good way of fighting MC's). I don't expect the squads to ever hit the field, but 2 are equipped so they can (assault ramp, meltas, pfist, and the champ) should something whacky happen.

With the need to take a vow, I was hoping for something that wouldn't be totally wasted, but also not cost me 50 freakin' points. Thus, Abhor the Witch was a neet-o choice, since it applys to EVERY UNIT and keeps me from spending 50 pts to enhance 11 guys. I know it won't help against Lash or Seer's, but it WILL help against something like Thousand Suns (which have psychic anti-tank), Zoanthropes (psychic shooting attack? I'll take a free 5+), or classic Marine Libies.

I agree that the vow is 'kinda' worthless in a majority of situations, but BT have a real ability to go tread heavy/infantry light, and I wanted to abuse that. Thus I see no point in Acpt Any Chlnge in THIS list.
I see your point but I'm still a bit skeptical, but then again I just plain prefer swarming my enemy with a whole bunch of black clad warriors, and I have never really gone with a list as vehicle heavy as this :p. Though I wouldnt mind hearing the difference in effectiveness it provides vs a psychic heavy list to a regular less psychic-y list.
 

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the problem I see is, what happen if u get in THEIR melta range?? NO armor can stand up to that, and a Monsterus will eat the squad b4 the power fist can get his attack off. My LRC is a fire magnet. Most army's that I play against are geared to take dual LRC no prob. Just my thoughts as 536 pts is a big hit by turn 3.
All that being said I still like the list, and would try it out!
 

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the problem I see is, what happen if u get in THEIR melta range?? NO armor can stand up to that, and a Monsterus will eat the squad b4 the power fist can get his attack off. My LRC is a fire magnet. Most army's that I play against are geared to take dual LRC no prob. Just my thoughts as 536 pts is a big hit by turn 3.
All that being said I still like the list, and would try it out!

i agree with this, but any army fighting this list will be forced to split their fire between the two LRC's, the vindi, the pred, and 2 razorbacks. that will be a pretty tough feat to accomplish. the LRC's will definitely be taking a ton of fire but that leaves a lot of firepower to be dealt with from the other vehicles.

i'm also thinking of running this list a few times.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I just like the idea MechDar have been using for a while - a wave serpent treats 60 pts. worth of troops inside as a 'troops choice upgrade;' the DA's never leave the tank, and the build basically lets you max efficient tanks without losing on scoring units.

Not EXACTLY the same thing here, BUT if you had the models you could drop squads 3 and 4, along with the melta's in the first two squads, and get a 3rd LRC with a 5 man Fist squad inside. I'm not sure it will help in the over-all scheme, honestly, since the mobile, lower-threat RzBcks are great against low count MC armies (like demon princes, foot-dar, and the modern Nids) as well as a handy long-range insta-kill against multi-wound models (eat it attack bikes!) AND you are losing 5 more bodies that score...

...

...but 3 LRC's AND a Pred+Vindy in a 1500 pt game? Kick-a$$.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I don't own 3, just the 2 crusaders - but even if I did, in terms of efficiency, I still don't think I would make that trade.

Don't get me wrong - @ 1500 pts, 3 LR's of any variety (in a game where NOT having 3 squads of infantry means you'll lose often enough because you're simply lacking in scoring units) are particularly hard to handle, especially when they are equipped with the old smoke rules.

BUT, I prefer to have some low-value targets (giving your opponents choices is the best way to go about convincing them to make a wrong one) AND I like to split the fire of my TLLC's when I can, PLUS this way I get 4 'scoring tanks,' even if 2 of them are more easily disposed of. That, and I don't like the original LR pattern anyway.

So, I think I'm sticking with the original list, I simply added the thing about 3 LR's to those who like fielding 5 HS choices. Oddly enough, I have yet to have a chance to field it yet...

Anyone else given it a try?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
So, played a game and didn't do aweful, but then I borrowed a friend's Vindicator, dropped the 4th squad, and added a lascannon to the third foot-dudes. That makes:
2xCrusaders, 2xVindy's, 1xRzBck and 1xPred.

Apparently, no-one is prepared to handle this much armor at 1500 pts. First, I played IGuard with a few too many Chimera's and not enough S10 artillery. Second, I played some Tau with two squads of 2x broadsides. Lastly, I played Nidz with 4xMC's, 2 Zoanthropes and some hormagaunts. All of them ate it. I tabled the Tau on turn 5.

Here's the problem - I'm a terrible general. I do threat analysis pretty well, and I know a majority of armies build-ups... but I only get to play 2-3 times every month since before the new IG codex came out. I'm not that good at all. I shouldn't be able to play a decent Tau player with an armor heavy list and him with 4x Braodsides and nearly finish decimating him on turn 4! Yet, this list can.

Just thought I should report.
 

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recently played a game against the nids that would demolish that list. 3 units of hive guard plus, hive tyrant with 3 guard and a prime, he called it the death star... brutal on tanks. I had an LRC, vindi and 2 rhinos, all poped by turn 2 (land raider just hade bolters left, vindi didnt even get to shoot, and the rhino's had smoke on when they ate it) so if the army u r playing against is used to a heavely armored army then they will destroy u fast. and without enuf troops to go around the hive tyrant ate through it all. I win about half the time, but this was just wrong. (same list got a draw against BA in a kill point game.)
Just some food for thought on the tread head, once your armey is sized up properly, a take all comers aproach this list is not.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
recently played a game against the nids that would demolish that list. 3 units of hive guard plus, hive tyrant with 3 guard and a prime [...] Just some food for thought on the tread head, once your armey is sized up properly, a take all comers aproach this list is not.
Thanks for that. I never claimed it was a "take all comers list" - if someone was actually using a horde army with lots of anti-tank, I would probably lose nine games in ten... but I have yet to actually play someone who owned that much Ork or IG heavy weapons and infantry, so I'm playing to the Meta I know.

Against the nids that you mentioned, I don't see what I would have to worry about. With a 3xGuard tyrant, 3x of 3 Hive guard, and a Trygon Prime, he has around 400 pts to spend on troops (if no other upgrades were taken for the Tyratn) in a 1500 pt game, and his largest threat at 24" is couple of auto-cannons. The biggest threat is the Tyrant, which isn't going to do anything for 3 turns since it's slogging. With that guys sitting in a corner crying about how slow he is, 2 vindicators, a pred, and 2 LRC's vs 400 pt's of Nid infantry, a few bad auto-cannons, and one effective MC, I'm betting on the marines.
 

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Against the nids that you mentioned, I don't see what I would have to worry about.
2 Big bugs crapin out 3d6 bugs with feel no pain giving cover to a monster with fleet
just sayin u need line-o-site with auto cannon... they don't. Chargin into that aint too pretty, FUN though!!

Glad to hear that itz workin 4 u.:good: when I play my weekly game I write two lists 1 for nids, and 1 for everything else.lol. happy hunting:victory:
 
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