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Discussion Starter #1
Hello, I'm new to Heresy Online but not to Warhammer. In fact, i've been away from the game for several years and now getting back. I own the following Khorne units already and I want to double the size of the army to 2500 pts by adding units ONLY from Nurgle. I would appreciate advice from anyone playing this combo or familiar, thanx!

HQ
1 Bloodthirster...250pts
1 Skulltaker...140pts

Troop
10 Bloodletters...160pts
10 Bloodletters...160pts

Fast Attack
6 Flesh Hounds w/Karanak...170pts

Elite
5 Bloodcrushers.200

Heavy Support
1 Soul Grinder...135

Total = 1170

No problems removing Skulltaker and the Flesh Hounds if points needed elsewhere but the rest seems solid.
 

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Well, take a quick look at what each set of units brings to the table:

Khorne units, by and large, are incredibly killy in assault but often slower and/or less durable. They've got pure combat covered.

Nurgle units, on the other hand, are generally slow and ineffective in HtH and range but are incredibly durable.

There are of course exceptions, namely Hounds, GUOs and Nurgle Princes, which will factor heavily in compensating for the inherent weaknesses of the combination (low speed, trouble with mech)

So, overall, both sets lead you to a combat heavy list. Nurgle units are ideal for holding objectives or icons, while the Khorne units do the killing. Without any appreciable shooting, you need to be able to close quickly and prevent enemy shooting from crippling you or enemy mobility to outrun you.

So, look at your Troops first. Bloodletters are potent in assault but fragile, while Plaguebearers are ridiculously survivable but totally inept in a fight. Nurglings don't score, but are quite tough and good for tying units up. In this case, I'd just go for the standard unit of 5 Plaguebearers. Even at only 5 strong, Plaguebearers are very tough and capable of holding your objectives. 4-6 units can fill out your Troops selection easily, only eating up 300-450 points, leaving the vast majority for your actual killer units.

Your HQ is the other necessity. Khorne Heralds are cheap and potent in assault, but they are slow. We need to be able to catch up to mechanized opponents. Nurgle Heralds are just terribad, non-scoring Plaguebearers with 0 potency in combat. The GUO is promising due to its resilience, but speed is still an issue. Bloodthirsters are perfect. They're about as subtle to a brick to the face, but subtlety is not a luxury we can afford. For upgrades, look into Unholy Might so you can insta-kill T4 even off of the charge and to help against heavier armor as well as Blessing of the Blood God to protect against psykers. 550 for a pair and it's hard to get a better HQ pick.

Skarbrand and Ku'Gath are also options here, but largely unneeded. Skarbrand works best in an army with high Initiative and grenades to take advantage of his re-rolls before your opponent can strike back. No Khorne unit does that, and certainly no Nurgle units. He's also more expensive and potentially slower. Ku'Gath is a resilient beast, but his forte is killing infantry and if you haven't noticed, Daemons are never lacking in that department.

So, 1000 points gone already. Time for support.

Bloodthirsters are big and tough killing machines, but at 2500 even 8 T6 wounds can be easily taken out. Time to bring in more heavy hitters to help provide redundancy as well as more targets to threaten your opponent.

So that leaves us with Soul Grinders, Daemon Princes, and possibly Bloodcrushers. Soul Grinders are dirt cheap, relatively speedy, and very smashy in HtH. However, at 2500 points, anti-armor is going to be highly prevalent. It only takes 1 lucky hit to down a Grinder, and melta makes everything worse. I'd leave them at home at higher levels. Bloodcrushers are relatively cheap, fairly tough and quite potent in combat. The obvious downsides are low speed and huge DS footprint. They are more tough and killy targets, but not speedy enough to tangle with mech. We'll leave them for now. Daemon Princes are like Bloodthirsters: expensive and smashy monsters. Of our available gods, we've got to choose between +1 attack and a paltry selection of gifts or +1T and some of the best gifts around. Nurgle Princes are the obvious pick, as T6 is a massive improvement over T5 and you get access to Noxious Touch and Cloud of Flies. Tack on Wings and Iron Hide for mobility and survivability. He's almost as pricey as the BT, weighing in at 215, but it's hard to match that level of resilience combined with outright killing power.

3 of them is 645, bringing us to 1645 total. 855 points left.

We now have 5 T6 models with wings and very potent abilities in combat. That's 20 wounds. Most armies should have problems with that. You'll steamroll most infantry (TH/SS Termies still hand you your face) and can open up any vehicle, but it seems a waste to have 275 points of DOOM chasing Rhinos, doesn't it?

Enter Flesh Hounds. While they aren't as potent as the MCs, they are more mobile and perfect for dragging down lots of lightly armored infantry or vehicles (they would stand a better chance against TH/SS Termies due to weight of numbers). 3 units of 10 only runs you 450 points, tack on Karanak to help re-roll difficult terrain and add some high S rending. 485 now.

2130 now, leaving us with 370 points and a pretty much full FOC.

Well, all we have left is Elites or upgrading what we have. For Elites we have the tough, powerful and slow Bloodcrushers or Beasts of Nurgle. Beasts are trash with S&P and no power weapons, so don't bother. Bloodcrushers can be used instead of front line units where their size and lack of speed end up a hindrance but as mop up and area denial. Very few units can take on BCs in HtH, and very few people will want to focus on them with 5 flying MCs and 30 cavalry models running around. This gives Bloodcrushers the opportunity to block movement lanes, secure/contest objectives or catch up and finish units that no longer have transports or are giving your units, most likely Flesh Hounds, trouble.

3 units of 2 with an instrument for wound allocation only runs us 255 points. Not bad at all.

Now we're up to 2385. With only 115 points left we move on to upgrades. What do we need?

Well, Nurgle Princes are only S5. This gives them a much tougher time destroying armored targets, making your BTs the main answer to Land Raiders. Giving them Might would eat up 60 points easily. Shooting attacks for the Princes, namely Breath, are also available. More infantry killing and a 50% chance to glance a vehicle before charging it. Not bad, if a big pricey. More Plaguebearers are an option for the paranoid. Icons I wouldn't recommend because all of your important units are mobile enough to not need them or don't need to risk dangerous drops because they are focused on objectives or following up on the fast stuff. More Hounds are an option if you feel the need or don't think 30 will be enough. More Crushers are also available should you wish to buff their unit size. Fury of Khorne would be a good option for them to help against walkers and for more wound allocation.

If it were me, I'd go for the addition of Unholy Might on the Daemon Princes as well as adding Fury of Khorne to all units of BCs and Flesh Hounds. This helps against armor and problem units like Dreadnoughts. The last 10 points can go towards instrument or whatever else you may want.

So, to recap
HQ
2x Bloodthirster w/ Unholy Might, Blessing of the Blood God

Elites
3x 2 Bloodcrushers, 1 w/ Fury of Khorne

Troops
6x 5 Plaguebearers

Fast Attack
11 Flesh Hounds, 1w/ Fury of Khorne, Karanak
2x 10 Flesh Hounds

Heavy Support
3x Daemon Princes w/ Mark of Nurgle, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Noxious Touch, Cloud of Flies

Total - 2500

As far as deployment is concerned, generally you'll want to divide your army into fast movers (MCs and Hounds) and foot (PBs and BCs). You'll want the fast stuff to come in first so you can get stuck in ASAP, while the rest secure objectives. If the opposite happens, bunker up into cover to endure enemy shooting, use BCs to block movement or feint, then follow up with fasties.

Hope that helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
That's a nasty army you put together but I'm not sure on a few units and remember I'm trying to use what I already have to keep costs down, so I want to keep the 20 Bloodletters. I don't mind buying another 5 Flesh Hounds but is this unit good enough to have 30? Also, I would like a Nugle HQ choice to keep it fluffy and the Daemon Princes seems wicked but I would have to connvert 3 models...hmmm. So how about:

HQ
Bloodthirster w/Unholy Might, Blessing of the Blood God
2nd Choice (Prefer a Nurgle HQ)

Troop
2x 10 Bloodletters
4x 7 Plaguebearers

Fast Attack
11 Flesh Hounds w/Karanak

Elite
3x 2 Bloodcrushers 1 w/ Fury of Khorne

Heavy Support
Soul Grinder
2x Daemon Prince w/Mark of Nurgle, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Noxious Touch, Cloud of Flies

Total = 2045
 

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While I love the soul grinder you might find that having just 1 means that it'll tend to get hit with melta weaponry very rapidly: most people are able to counter enemy LRs so a single grinder roaming the field isnt really going to scare them very much...

For nurgle HQs I suggest a GUO with cloud of flies (165pts); most people would add breath of chaos to that to make him quite killy with shooting but I find he's more of a denial model rather then a hunter: you DS him near enemy objectives then slowly advance on them. Few people can kill him quickly (or will even try to) because he is cheap and very hard to kill... and can take on most enemies in combat when he eventually gets there. Other HQs for nurgle dont really shine through: ku'gath is awesome but too expensive (unless running an epidemus tally), epidemus is more for mono-nurgle lists or you lose out on his bonuses and nurgle heralds just dont seem to add anything.

I would also cut noxious touch off those DPs- with unholy might you'll already be wounding almost everything on a 2+ anyway (uness you are going to face a lot of monstrous creatures- like a tyranid army- then it isnt really needed), instead I would add in daemonic gaze otherwise you are wasting the BS2 of the DPs, and a S5 AP3 3 shot weapon is pretty nice for 20pts.


Other then that I think the list is quite good. Drop some nurgle units down close to the enemy and the hounds further away.. then charge nurgle into enemy shooty units and the dogs are fast enough to get into the units with the weapons you really dont like... the job of the first wave isnt to win but to stop the enemy shooting while you bring in the khorne units and get them forward into assault.
If you can find the points an icon or 2 in the plagueberer units would help this sort of plan no-end... partially because you reduce DS risk for the khorne units but more so because they'll draw fire away from the more important and easier to kill units that enter play with them.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Okay, now I have something like this. Less Flesh Hounds then recommended but I increased Bloodcrushers. Keeping the Soul Grinder knowing using only one is a liabilty. Any further comments or suggestion's? If this seems good, we need to decide how to group for deployment.

HQ
Bloodthirster w/Unholy Might, Blessing of the Blood God...275pts
Great Unclean One w/Unholy Might, Breath of Chaos, Aura of Decay, Cloud of Flies...230pts

Troop
10 Bloodletters...160pts
10 Bloodletters...160pts
7 Plaguebearers w/Icon of Chaos...130pts
7 Plaguebearers w/Icon of Chaos...130pts
7 Plaguebearers...105pts
7 Plaguebearers...105pts

Fast Attack
11 Flesh Hounds w/Karanak...200pts

Elites
5 Bloodcrushers
5 Bloodcrushers

Heavy Support
Soul Grinder w/Phlegm...160pts
Daemon Prince w/Mark of Nurgle, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Noxious Touch, Cloud of Flies...235pts
Daemon Prince w/Mark of Nurgle, Flight, Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Noxious Touch, Cloud of Flies...235pts

Total = 2525pts
 

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You can't have Blessing of the Blood God without the Mark of Khorne on your Daemon Princes. Your points values seem to be all off as well.

Your Soul Grinder should cost 160pts, not 165.

Your Princes without Blessings should cost 235pts.

11 Flesh Hounds upgraded 1 to Karnack is 200 points.

So I total your list to 2525 points. Not far off just need to make a couple of cuts.

Aramoro
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanx Aramoro, edited list above. I'll cut 25pts somewhere but overall I like it. Maybe not the best list but uses the model I already have and should be fun. Appreciate the help from everyone!
 

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for cost and tattics this is what i did. Bought a box of new plastic minatuars(if u want less work orgers work). Added bellies..wings...losts of bloat and original heads and moded position. Then i bought units of ghouls and molded bellies and went to bit hordes on ebay and purchased zombie knife arms and round bases and the new dreadnaught bases(i belive i paid 15$ and ship). I moded the knifes onto the ghols then molded a single horn coming out of an eye socket and up the head. Then in my expeirnce i found this list works great (not as fun as tally list but its my hybrid between the massive amount of khorne stuff i allready had and my new nurgle units)

2 hearlds in bloodthirster squads
1 skulltaker(anti cool shit)
2x12 blood letters
4x7 plaugebearrers(icons)
3 deamon princes(mark of nurgle, wings, flies, gaze(if i have more points i go for might then maybe armour)...i find touch to be worthless cause there isnt much that i dont allready wound on a 2+ compared to how much im lacking in range
and for a suicide squad i added a 3 man squad of flamers i made by making 3 ghouls look like they where about to throw up, and 1 like he was going to blow up.
This is just what i found works...hope it helps
 

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for cost and tattics this is what i did. Bought a box of new plastic minatuars(if u want less work orgers work). Added bellies..wings...losts of bloat and original heads and moded position. Then i bought units of ghouls and molded bellies and went to bit hordes on ebay and purchased zombie knife arms and round bases and the new dreadnaught bases(i belive i paid 15$ and ship). I moded the knifes onto the ghols then molded a single horn coming out of an eye socket and up the head. Then in my expeirnce i found this list works great (not as fun as tally list but its my hybrid between the massive amount of khorne stuff i allready had and my new nurgle units)
That's flipping cool, got pics?

Taking what you have I'm concerned with the overall lack of mobility. You only have 3 flying units and 1 unit of cav. You do have area denial from the BCs and Bletters, but mech armies are going to pretty much have the run of the board unless your fast units can survive and catch them.

As far as splitting up, I'd drop your MCs and Grinder together while dropping the BCs and dogs in another wave. 1 is smashy, smashy, the other is area denial.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I keep your tip on converting on mind but I hear Games Workshop is releasing new Chaos Daemons models this August and it seems a plastic daemon prince is among them. So I'll get the other stuff first and wait it out. I expect to expand to Tzneetch & Slaanesh once I'm done with the above. Thanx again!
 
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