Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner
1 - 20 of 46 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All

Just a quick question: Can a BA landraider deepstrike then pop smoke and fire 1 weapon with POTMS?

Cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,122 Posts
Hell no!

A Landraider counts as moveing as fast as possbile when it arraives from deep stiek(along with everyhting else). The Machine spirirt allows it to fire 1 weapon as per normal but poping smoke is done INSTEAD of shooting. I know some will try to argue that you can pop smoke with a Landraider but you can always shoot 1 weapon but machine spirirt ruels do not say that you overide smoke.

Why would you DS a Landraider in the first place? It can move forwaed for 2 turns and shoot and still unlead it's contence while DS it would mean you cna only fire 1 weapon on turn 2...if you arrive on turn 2 and you can't disenbark and you may lose 300+pts worth of modals from mishaps
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
468 Posts
Hi All

Just a quick question: Can a BA landraider deepstrike then pop smoke and fire 1 weapon with POTMS?

Cheers
It counts as moving at cruising speed when it arrives from deep strike, and could then use it's smoke launchers.

If it did so, it couldn't fire (smoke launchers forbid any weapons from being fired). If it didn't use smoke, it could fire one weapon using PotMS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,976 Posts
It can indeed fire one weapon when it lands, as Forkbanger says. It counts as moving at cruising speed, which means it can't fire any weapons, PotMS lets you fire one more weapon that you normally would, so you can fire 1 weapon.

If it did so, it couldn't fire (smoke launchers forbid any weapons from being fired). If it didn't use smoke, it could fire one weapon using PotMS.
Not that I'd argue it myself, but there are some around who argue that you can use smoke and fire a weapon with PotMS :p It's a RAW vs. RAI thing.* You can search the forums for the threads on it.


*note to all others, this is not an invitation to start THAT argument again:wacko:. Leave it for another thread!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
488 Posts
Popping smoke is not done instead of one attack or as an ordnance or whatever. It specifically says "vehicle may not fire any of its weapons in the
same turn as it used its smoke launchers". Regardless of deep striking, cruising speed, shaken etc. It seems to me that you can ALWAYS pop smoke, even if a vehicle is immobilized, and the crew shaken or stunned. And if you do pop smoke, you can't fire any weapons...
However... what about walkers/assault vehicles?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,719 Posts
Er... what about them?

It is not that you may fire one weapon using PotMS after popping Smoke (since 0+1=1), it is that you may not pop smoke at all if the vehicle fires. Any Fire=no smoke.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,314 Posts
You pop smoke before you fire weapons. It happens at the end of the movement phase.

It's a very grey area if PotMS lets you fire or not. I would tend to say No, but possibly Yes

Aramoro
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,719 Posts
The order doesn't matter. There are plenty of things in the game that say you may not do if you are doing something else later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,314 Posts
The order doesn't matter. There are plenty of things in the game that say you may not do if you are doing something else later.
You just said it did matter. Name one of those things out of interest

Popping smoke say you may fire no Weapons, PotMS lets you fire one more than normal 0+1 = 1.

Aramoro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,648 Posts
FYI, Cruising Speed says 'No Weapons', not '0' weapons. No Weapons is exactly what it says and does not equal 0.

Do the BAshave a special version of PotMS?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,648 Posts
Ok, I must remember the old version of it then... I'm surprised they changed that from the last codex.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
488 Posts
But it's not 0+1=1, it's [1(normal attack)+1(PotMS)]x0(Smoke)=0. It does not say "When popping smoke, you lose one ranged attack for each ranged attack you normally have".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,314 Posts
But it's not 0+1=1, it's [1(normal attack)+1(PotMS)]x0(Smoke)=0. It does not say "When popping smoke, you lose one ranged attack for each ranged attack you normally have".
What? Can you give me a justification for it working that way then. Rules quotes from the BRB should do.

Aramoro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
488 Posts
[quote="BRB, page 62]The vehicle may not fire any of its weapons in the same turn as it used its smoke launchers.[/quote]
I don't have the SM codex, but I remember that the PotMS LR can only fire weapons that it can fire normally. Since it can not fire any of it's weapons, I think it's pretty clear it can't fire any of it's weapons.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,314 Posts
So you pop smoke in the preceding movement phase. It gets to your shooting phase and 'The Vehicle may not fire any of it's Weapons' Boo. But wait PotMS will let me fire one more weapon than I normally could. I could normally fire no weapons so I can now fire one.

I mean 'Vehicles moving at Cruising Speed may not fire' Is pretty clear but PotMS lets them fire 1 weapon. 'Therefore, a Land Raider that has moved at combat speed can fire two weapons, and a Land Raider that has either moved at cruising speed, or has suffered a 'Crew Stunned' or 'Crew Shaken' result can fire a single weapon'

That is where the confusion comes in. It's tiny details between the phrases

The Vehicle may not fire any of it's Weapons

and

Vehicles moving at Cruising Speed may not fire

Thats why it is a grey area.

Aramoro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
488 Posts
PotMS will let me fire one more weapon than I normally could. But I could normally fire no weapons, so it doesn't really help me much.
I fixed it for you :p

Since it's specified, it's an exception. Cruising Speed, Crew Stunned and Crew Shaken are all in the BRB, as are Smoke Launchers. The first three are listed as being granted an attack with PotMS, but the last one is not even mentioned. If it was a 4th ed SM codex, and if Smoke Launchers were introduced in the 5th edition, I'd see the confusion; it's not on the list because it didn't exist. But I think this is pretty clear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,314 Posts
That list is mearly an example though, hence why it says Therefore. I don't like custard, therefore I don't like custard doughnuts. The fact in that statement is that I don't like custard not that I only do not like custard doughnuts.

The fact of the PotMS is that it lets you fire one more weapon than normal. Therefore I can fire one weapon at cruising speed and if I pop smoke.

Aramoro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,648 Posts
The way I read it was that you get to fire an extra weapon if you didn't move more than 6". What does the rule state now?
 
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Top