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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A couple of questions relating to the Blood and Glory battle mission and the Vampire Counts army book.

1) If a standard bearer is slain, but subsequently resurrected as per the "Invocation of Nehek" spell, does he begin counting for the purposes of the break point again?

I would assume that he would, as the wording in the BRB is the "current number of standards in the army". However, up until the point he is resurrected he would not count.

2) How "immediately" does an army break during the Blood and Glory mission? For example, would it be at the end of an initiative step in a close combat, or would you have to resolve all of the other fights occurring in that close combat phase first to see if the other army broke "simultaneously"?
Also, imagine the situation where two opposing units are hit by a weapon that causes damage to both sides, such as a magical vortex or scattered war machine shot. One unit is wiped out and the other takes 25% casualties. The rules state a panic test must IMMEDIATELY be taken, and if failed the unit flees. If such a unit were to flee off the table it would break the opposing army. In this situation which of the following would be the appropriate course of action:
a) One army wins immediately once the opposing unit is wiped out,
b) The panic test is resolved and if the unit flees off the table victory points are used to determine the victor,
c) The player whose turn it is chooses which rule occurs first as per the sequencing section on page 10
d) The panic test is resolved but before the unit flees the other army wins anyway.
The about d) is that while the panic test is taken immediately, the result of the panic test (ie the fleeing section on page 63) does not explicitly state that it occurs immediately. However, the counter-argument to that is that it directs the reader to another section of the BRB (page 25) which DOES use the word immediately, although in reference more to the lack of rallying than the failure of a panic test.

In terms of an answer to this question I would imagine that immediately means an initiative step in reference to the initial part of the question, and either a) or b) from the second part of the question, leaning towards b)

3) If a standard bearer with a magic standard is slain, but he is then resurrected as per the spell "Invocation of Nehek", does he regain the use of the magic standard?

I would assume yes, but with no reasoning other than you are resurrecting the model rather than replacing him.

4) Can spells such as "Invocation of Nehek" and "Vanhel's Danse Macabre" be cast at a target who is not in the front arc of the caster?

I don't think so, since the BRB specifically states that "unless otherwise stated the following rules apply: the target must lie within the wizard's forward arc".
However, this raises an issue - a character in the front rank of a unit cannot possibly have his own unit in his front arc, and therefore (since it does not state otherwise, and is not an augment spell as far as I can tell) cannot use IoN to bolster his own unit. Obviously though I could understand a simple argument that the wizard was definitely in his own front arc, and I would never stop anyone casting the spell on their own unit.
The only other counter-argument would be that the spell says "target one of your own undead units or characters within 18"." However this still doesn't specify that it ignores the rule requiring the target to not be in the front arc.



Thanks for reading this, and thanks in advance to any answers. Sorry the questions are long-winded but I wanted to be explicit and try to close loopholes, whilst also providing my own reasoning on the issues.
 

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1) Yes they would count, it's based on your current Standards

2) it's immediately immediate. If you at any time have less or equal fortitude than your breaking point you lose. So if you fail a break test and flee and stab your own standard bearer to death under Last Stand you lose as soon as you do that. Combats are resolved in the Acting players choice so if he resolves one which means he kills your standard then he wins before having to resolve the other fights.

3) I would have to say yes, the model is resurrected and I can't see any reason why he would not still have his magic flag.

4) All spells are bound by the default restrictions placed upon them, one of which is front arc only. So as it is written no you cannot cast either spell on someone not in your front arc.

Aramoro
 

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I'm guessing in your example both units have banners. The unit that gets wiped out would make their side lose before the panic test carries the other sides banner away. Their standard dies, they lose, then the panic test happens. so yes, a

Aramoro
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Oh, also about question 4), what would you say about the use of IoN on a unit a character is attached to? The spell requires you to target either a unit OR a character, and so the unit will not be in the front arc of an attached character. Would you still let the character cast the spell on the unit he is with?
 

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Technically no you couldn't cast it on your own unit.

That said I would count all these spells as Augment spells as that is clearly what they are so you do not have to be in the front arc.

Aramoro
 

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So what you're saying is that a character cannot cast a spell on himself inless the spell specifically says he can, as a character cannot possibly be in his own front arc. Huh?
 

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Possibly yes, Front arc is 45 degrees out from each corner and you are not inside that by definition.

If it's an Augment he can because you don't need to be in the front arc to be augmented. I think most people would say the Necromancy Spells are Augments in general though. But technically they are not so the target must be in the front arc.

Aramoro
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'm not talking about the BSB, just a regular (for example, skeleton) standard bearer, which can be raised back if you have a unit that gets down to just a single model (which would be the champion).
 

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After asking around you are not bound by the targeting restrictions in the Rule Book for the Necromancy Spells. There's an exception for all spells printed in older army books and they have all the targeting restrictions you need.

Aramoro
 

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Just realized suicide is very difficult in the WFB world: nobody can shoot themselves because the can't target themselves (not in own LOS), nor can they stab themselves because they aren't in BTB with themselves. Also explains why the nobility have servants dress them: hard to dress yourself ptoperly when you can't see yourself (pesky LOS rules!).
 
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