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Discussion Starter #1
Now I know this may seem silly, if not ridiculous, I'm fairly certain I've got the rules down pat for these weapons but my brother (who plays Ultramarines) is wrong in the understanding of these rules, in my opinion anyway (and my other brothers opinion)

In the rule book for blast weapons it states something like this (note, I don't own a rule book yet I'm just going off memory): "The unit suffers the number of hits from the number of models under the template" - paraphrased.

Me and my Tau brothers understanding is - you place the blast template down (or flame template in case of my baleflamer) and you inflict 1 hit on EACH model under the template, thus EACH MODEL takes HIS OWN armour save, if he has one.

My space mahreen brothers interpretation of this rule is: The MODEL DIRECTLY UNDERNEATH THE CENTRE HOLE suffers the number of hits equal to the amount of models under the template (or the model in the front row of the flame template suffers the number of hits equal to the amount of models under the flame template). Confused? I am too. here's an example of both templates that I have seen him pull with my own eyes.

eg1: Blast template - My vindicator drops a shell on his squad of Sternguard Veterans. The SM Captain is in the same squad. The template is placed OVER the captain to ensure the MOST hits on his squad. Because this gun has AP2 his artificer armour is for naught. His storm shied gives him a 3++ save, which is fine, his squad of sternguard though, does NOT have storm shields though, thus, no armour save. The template inflicts 10 hits because it has hit 9 sternguard and 1 captain. His captain, because DIRECTLY UNDERNEATH THE CENTRE HOLE rolls 10 dice for a 3++ save and saves EVERY. SINGLE. FUCKING. ONE. Thus my vindicator inflicts 10 hits and does 0 wounds.

eg2: My helldrake baleflames his squad of assault marines. A baleflamer has an AP of 3, thus his marines have no save except the sgt, who has a combat shield of 6++, and his bloody captain with artificer armour, thus giving him 2+. His captain is first in line (closest to the helldrake) therefore, because 8 models are under the template (including the captain) the captain takes 8 hits with a 2+ save and SAVES EVERY. SINGLE. FUCKING. ONE. Again, 8 hits causes and 0 wounds done.

My interpretation is simple.

eg1: My vindi drops a shell, hits 10, does 9 wounds to his sternguard killing them all and his captain saves the 1 hit he suffered. Runs, and then regroups due to TSKNF.

eg2: My helldrake flames his assault squad, causes 7 wounds because his sgt fails his 6++, the other 6 have no save due to power armour and his captain saves the 2+.

Which is the correct interpretation? Cheers guys. (sorry for the length of this post but seriously.... I need this shit over with, me and my Tau brother are sick to fucking death of this bullshit.):angry::ireful2::mad:
 

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It depends. Is the blast barrage or not?

Blast and template weapons cause a certain number of hits equal to the number of models under the template. However, the normal rules for allocating wounds applies. This means regardless of who is actually under the template the wounds must be allocated to the closest model to the firing unit, even if they are nowhere near the blast. My group made a house rule that only models under the template can take wounds and you start from the closest, but that is beside the point.

Your brother is right (mostly) if the blast weapon has the barrage rule. Barrage weapons count the shot as coming from the center of the blast marker meaning cover and wounds get allocated from the center. Essentially the model at the center of the blast marker takes all wounds until he dies then the rest spread out from him.

So sadly his captain being in front should take all wounds until he dies.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The issue being - none of the weapons being used are barrage. Baleflamer is simply "Template" with torrent, and the other blasts are just either ordanance or blast or large blast. Does that still count for non barrage weapons or just barrage weapons?
 

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The issue being - none of the weapons being used are barrage. Baleflamer is simply "Template" with torrent, and the other blasts are just either ordanance or blast or large blast. Does that still count for non barrage weapons or just barrage weapons?
If they aren't barrage then you allocate wounds to the closest model as psactionman said.

For example:


If you had 5 marines in a line and the template/blast covers all 5, then he scores 5 hits.

He rolls 5 hits and 3 cause wounds.

You take 3 saves and fail 1.

The model closest to the attacking unit is removed as a casualty.


eg2: My helldrake baleflames his squad of assault marines. A baleflamer has an AP of 3, thus his marines have no save except the sgt, who has a combat shield of 6++, and his bloody captain with artificer armour, thus giving him 2+. His captain is first in line (closest to the helldrake) therefore, because 8 models are under the template (including the captain) the captain takes 8 hits with a 2+ save and SAVES EVERY. SINGLE. FUCKING. ONE. Again, 8 hits causes and 0 wounds done.
Unfortunately this is correct :(

Like psactionman, my understanding is that only the models under the template can take the hits, so with the baleflamer you could just position it to not hit his captain.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
In any other case, it ends up working out the same, 6 marines are under, for example, AP4 blast, 1 marine takes 6 3+ saves. and fails all 6, the 6 marines under the template still die because its all the same save and it all works out OK. The stupid part being if it happens to land on an armour save 2+ guy the explosion hits and explodes making things all fiery and explodey but... only 1 guy gets hit? I'm a realist when I play these games and that just doesn't seem real enough for me. In a war, if I throw a grenade down into a trench or a tunnel, and ONE guy is wearing some sort of anti shrapnel/explosion armour, the grenade is still going to kill some dudes not wearing any protection... if that makes sense :/
 

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In a war, if I throw a grenade down into a trench or a tunnel, and ONE guy is wearing some sort of anti shrapnel/explosion armour, the grenade is still going to kill some dudes not wearing any protection... if that makes sense :/
What if the guy with the special armour dives on top of the grenade and shelters his fellow comrades from the explosion?

It sucks balls when stuff like this happens, but making up fun stories around the (often silly) events of a 40k game is half the fun :wink:
 

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my understanding is that only the models under the template can take the hits, so with the baleflamer you could just position it to not hit his captain.
Unfortunately, this can't be used either. It's the closest model to the source of damage, regardless if the template is placed over that specific model. The best bet would be to position the Heldrake in a way, that the 2+ marine isn't the closest model to ensure some kills.

(I just imagine the guy doing a full Captain America and standing in front of the flame, shielding his battle brothers)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks guys. My SM brother went into GW and sorted it all out. The way he was working out blasts was wrong (except in the case of barrage weapons - which we don't have) and the way I was thinking was wrong too (but more correct than his). As for the flame template, we were both wrong (he was saying he can choose to allocate the hits to any model in the squad which is B.S) but yeah, I'll just have to position the Drake in a way that burns everyone but his captain - or just avoid that squad all together and shoot them down.
 
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