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Porn King!!!
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Discussion Starter #1
Ok guys, I am totally new to Fantasy as I have said but I do finally have a Tomb Kings army mostly assembled with a ton of spare models to tailor a list however I want. I like the idea of chariots in a big way so please focus on tactics for a mobile, chariot based TK army if you would. But any and all advice on how to use the Kings would be appreciated.
 

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From my understanding, having a Tomb King and a Tomb Prince, each in a unit of chariots, makes for a truly nasty and hard hitting unit. Both having the ability to 'My Will Be Done' their units into combat during the magic phase really helps get them into position, often on turn one.

Popular loadouts for the Chariot King... Flail of Skulls, Collar of Shapesh, Chariot of Fire, and giving the unit a the banner that heals 1d3 wounds on the unit each turn. There is also the spear that autoheals the character with each would, as well as giving the +1 strength bonus on the charge. A couple more units of Chariots usually accompany such a list, as well as a unit or two of Fast Cav Light Horsemen with a mounted Liche Priest to back up those Urgency incantations on the Chariots. A second Liche Priest (Hierophant) is usually assigned a backfield role, sometimes with the Casket. Toss in a couple of Tomb Scorpions and a Screaming Skull Catapult and you should have a well rounded hard hitting army.

I've been looking into Tomb Kings as well, though I think I favor the infantry approach.
 

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If you want a fast army dont go for tomb kings. id go anything elvish or brettonia. because tomb kings cant march even the cavalry will be almost as slow or slower than many other races infantry :( despite this they can still be used effectively by keeping the army back with archers, catapults and casket of souls to provide fire support. If you manouvre your cavalry well you can crush what is left of their arrow beleagured units. I play a dark elves army that is very affective at this. use as many chariots as you can or only a couple.
 

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Porn King!!!
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Discussion Starter #4
Has to be Tomb Kings for me. It is the only army I am interested in for Fantasy and that is simply because of the models.
 

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I wouldn't worry, the Chariot Spam Tomb Kings is quite powerful. Chariots can't march anyway, so the Tomb Kings weakness is irrelevant.
 

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If you want a fast army dont go for tomb kings.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with that statement. Tomb Kings look very slow on paper, and if you discount magic then then play very slow in game as well.

However, once you add in magic, Tomb Kings can get quite fast. Ushabti charging effectively at 15" (which is more than most cavalry in the game) and Carrion with insane 40" charges.
 

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Dont forget about scorpions and swarms. These used to eat up my dwarf war machines. The chariots are evil too. I can't remember the names of the heros and stuff but magic can the core units get across the board pretty quick. Finally that damn casket is EVIL.
 

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Porn King!!!
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Discussion Starter #8
Here is the list I have right now, based on the models I actually have

1 Tomb King @ 288 Pts
General; Hand Weapon; Light Armor; Flammable; Undead
1 Chariot
Undead
2 Skeletal Steed
1 Spear of Antarhak
1 Enchanted Shield
1 Chariot of Fire

1 Liche Priest @ 135 Pts
Hierophant; Hand Weapon; Undead
1 Cloak of the Dunes

1 Liche Priest @ 280 Pts
Hand Weapon; Undead
1 Casket of Souls
2 Casket Guard
Great Weapon; Light Armor; Undead

5 Chariots @ 275 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Fast Cavalry; Undead
1 Champion
Hand Weapon; Bow; Spear
5 Driver
Hand Weapon
4 Warrior
Hand Weapon; Bow; Spear
10 Skeletal Steed
1 Banner of the Undying Legion

10 Skeleton Warriors @ 80 Pts
Hand Weapon; Bow; Undead

19 Skeleton Warriors @ 185 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Shield; Undead
1 Champion
Hand Weapon; Shield

9 Skeleton Heavy Horsemen @ 195 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Spear; Light Armor; Shield; Undead
1 Champion
Hand Weapon; Spear; Light Armor; Shield
10 Skeletal Steed

1 Tomb Scorpion @ 85 Pts
Killing Blow; Magic Resistance (1); Poisoned Attacks; Undead

4 Ushabti @ 260 Pts
Undead

1 Bone Giant @ 220 Pts
Extra Hand Weapon; Heavy Armor; Causes Terror; Large Target; Undead

Total Roster Cost: 2003
 

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I think you have the idea, but there are a few concerns....

The spear on the King is a cool weapon, but it often comes to nought... There are simply more situations when the flail would be much better. Personally, I'm nervous about large units of chariots... they are very susceptible to cannon/war machine fire and are often too large to really make use of the extra numbers... most units can only get base-to-base with 3 chariots at max. The Heavy Horsemen are pretty cool, but will lose almost every combat... While they have spears and a 4+ save, they still don't have very good stats, and fewer attacks/combat res bonuses than most any ranked units.... Not having the ability to march means that they'll not often get the chance to flank. The Light Horsemen, on the other hand, are an all-purpose expendible unit, capable of redirecting a charge, or taking a rank bonus from a larger unit with their bows. The same can be said of the Skeletal Archer unit, but in a slower manner.

Be careful that the Giant does not end up as a missile/magic magnet. Most do when fielded singly. Also, magic is not only good in a TK army... it is necessary. The TK have too many drawbacks to be able to complete with mildly competitive armies without the aid of magic... Having a 4th character with the ability to incant spells will be a big boost to the army. Also, keep in mind that the Casket, while very cool, also makes the Liche working it very vulnerable to spells, missiles and assaults....

Well, I hope this was of some help... Sorry for being wordy.
 

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Your list looks like it would be fun to play, but I'm not sure how it would do in a competitive atmosphere.

The first glaring thing that jumps out at me is the fact that you only have 3 characters in a 2000 point list. Due to the huge reliance that Tomb Kings have on magic, (possibly more than any other army in Warhammer Fantasy) they really do need to use a Lord and 3 Heroes at 2000 point games. Even if its a Tomb Prince, that extra 1 Incantation will be very helpful.

Next thing, your King is very vulnerable with out any kind of ward save on his chariot. He really needs the Golden Eye in my opinion for a bit of added protection. One good cannonball or Dwarven Bolt Thrower into his chariot and all of a sudden he's on foot, and very, very vulnerable to being killed. Also, as Hespithe stated, I'd go with the Flail of Skulls over the Spear of Antarhak due to killing power. The optimal build for the Spear involves a King of foot with the Cloak of the Dunes and Scorpion Armor, and he is used as a speed bump.

For your Hierophant, add in the Hieratic Jar as well. The Cloak and Jar is the best item combo possible for a Liche Priest Hierophant, and the extra incantation will help you immensely having only 3 characters.

The 5 man chariot unit offers the King the protection of a "Look Out Sir" roll. However, I would think that a 6 man chariot unit with the King is going to be a bit of a pain in the ass to maneuver if there is any kind of terrain on the board.
 

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Porn King!!!
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Discussion Starter #11
Personally, I'm nervous about large units of chariots... they are very susceptible to cannon/war machine fire
Yup. Found that out today the hard way :p

I would think that a 6 man chariot unit with the King is going to be a bit of a pain in the ass to maneuver if there is any kind of terrain on the board.
Also found that out the hard way.

The idea of a 4th character for the magic phase sounds cool. I didn't know you could do that (used to 40K with 2 HQ limits I guess) so I will take a look at that. I am curious as to why the Heavy horsemen would lose every combat while the light ones are better? Can't get my head around that one...
 

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when a unit which is already engaged in combat is assaulted on a flank or rear they are required to take a panic test. If they fail they run. So with the light calvary you can attack the flanks causing this panic test
 

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Also, the Heavy Horsemen are cav that cannot march and are not considered to be 'fast cav', which has special rules for its movement, reforming, shooting, and regrouping. Now, being undead, the Light Horsement still cannot march, and because they never flee, they never regroup, but the rules for shooting and reforming still apply. Light Horsemen are cheaper than Heavy Horsemen, can go where Heavy Horsemen cannot, and can reform while on the move. Light Horsemen are not meant to be a combat unit, but rather a very flexible support unit that can help swing combats for your true heavy hitters...

Consider the standard unit of 20 Tomb Guard, or even Ushabti, will usually go after the enemy's harder units.... Many times they will not outnumber, and then lose out on their most important benefit... Outnumber by fear causers cause an auto-break (if the insane courage roll is failed). Having a unit of only 5 Light Horsemen hit the flank of said unit in the same combat phase will ensure that you get the outnumber as well as reducing their combat resolution score dramatically. In addition, the 3d6 persuit of the Light Horsemen means that you'll almost always catch them when they flee.

There are more uses, but when you consider that Heavy Cav simply cannot support a unit very well, and cannot act as a hammer with as much success as regular HW/S Skellies or Tomb Guard, and you'll see just how much more useful small units of Light Horsemen can be.
 

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Also, the Heavy Horsemen are cav that cannot march and are not considered to be 'fast cav', which has special rules for its movement, reforming, shooting, and regrouping. Now, being undead, the Light Horsement still cannot march, and because they never flee, they never regroup, but the rules for shooting and reforming still apply. Light Horsemen are cheaper than Heavy Horsemen, can go where Heavy Horsemen cannot, and can reform while on the move. Light Horsemen are not meant to be a combat unit, but rather a very flexible support unit that can help swing combats for your true heavy hitters...
The Tomb King Cavalry in general (both Heavy and Light) have a very mixed following. The Light Cav are generally accepted as a decent body guard unit for mounted Liches, but not for much else due to them not being able to flee. I don't like using them that much personally, but thats just me.

Heavy Cav are usually considered our worst unit. They have crappy WS, crappy armor, and mediocre hitting power. I think the reason so many people put them down however, is that they try to use them in the same manor that one would use more "traditional" Heavy Cav, such as Bretonnian Knights or Saurus Cav. Our Heavy Horsemen basically are a mobile skeleton block with more speed/charge range, and a bit more hitting power on the charge. They can also be used for flankers in a pinch, though they won't be as effective as chariots.

Consider the standard unit of 20 Tomb Guard, or even Ushabti, will usually go after the enemy's harder units.... Many times they will not outnumber, and then lose out on their most important benefit... Outnumber by fear causers cause an auto-break (if the insane courage roll is failed). Having a unit of only 5 Light Horsemen hit the flank of said unit in the same combat phase will ensure that you get the outnumber as well as reducing their combat resolution score dramatically. In addition, the 3d6 persuit of the Light Horsemen means that you'll almost always catch them when they flee.
Well, it depends what you consider "standard" for Tomb Guard. Personally for me, that means having 19 TG with full command, the Icon of Rakaph, and a Tomb King with the Collar and DoE. I wouldn't hesitate to send them after any Infantry unit in the game, barring perhaps Chosen Chaos Warriors of Khorne or some Saurus with multiple Sacred Spawnings. But with the layout I'm using, there isn't too much that isn't going to not be outnumbered after I'm done with that unit, so I'm not worried about needing more Unit Strength to help outnumber.

Ushabti are similar. If you take a unit of 3 of them, you likely don't want to be taking most units head on, and should instead focus on flanking with them. A unit of 4 Ushabti however, can pretty much take on most things in the game, especially if they get the charge.

There are more uses, but when you consider that Heavy Cav simply cannot support a unit very well, and cannot act as a hammer with as much success as regular HW/S Skellies or Tomb Guard, and you'll see just how much more useful small units of Light Horsemen can be.
Well, to be quite honest, Tomb Kings have very little that can act as a hammer unit in the traditional sense, focusing instead on making the general utilize the army as a whole in order to win. The only unit that really qualifies is Ushabti. Tomb Guard can, if set up correctly and have a character in the unit, also be an effective hammer. Chariots are our last "big hitter" unit and easily the most used by most people who play Tomb Kings.

But back on the topic of Heavy Cav, I'll hold to my point that the best way Heavy Cav support people is by acting as a tarpit unit for our "hammer" units listed above.
 

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I tend to think that chariots are a bit over-rated... While they are unique to TK as a 'unit' option, they are still very fragile and pack the weakest punch of any chariot. Still, they can be used effectively. Chariots, especially in a TK army, draw a lot of attention... Having the Light Horsemen around gives you a bit of redundancy in case the Chariots are removed from the game too early to hit combat.

Also, considering that most TK blocks are going to be more 'fragile' than most enemy blocks, that extra puch from the flanking unit (and in a TK force only Chariots and Light Horsemen can perform this role with any reliability) can make all the difference... nearly every army has a unit or two that the Tomb Guard cannot overcome alone, given average Dice rolls. Also consider that if the TK is in the unit, then the enemy commander is likely there as well.

Generally, it all boils down to play style... Checking out the posts, the three of us are working on perfecting our lists, and we have pretty varied ideas of what 'perfect' may mean... That's just great, as it means that the TK can remain an interesing army for more than just the one tourney season.

Good luck, Wraithlord!
 

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Indeed, one of the great things about Tomb Kings is that there isn't a right playstyle. And not only that, but they are competitive using either a Tomb King or Liche High Priest. A great army overall :).
 

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Porn King!!!
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Discussion Starter #17
I might try the light horse in two groups of 5 then to see. Basically the list I have is the models I actually own so I almost need to stick to those choices. Wish I had another chariot so I could break them down into 2 units of 3 with one joining the TK.
 
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