[Doelago]

I am planing to collect an Armored Space Marine strike force, and I want three tanks, but I dont know which ones... So what is the tank in the SM armory that is most cost effective, and generally useful in every situation? What tanks should the force have? What is the best combo? And what up grades should it have? Stormbolter? Dozer Blade? I am trying to make an army that is even slightly competive, so any advices are useful...

Also, what is the best SM APC? Is it work drop podding big squads or Razorback small squads?

 

[Medic Marine]

I personally Think Vindicator is a great SM tank.
115 point for codex, strength 10 AP2 large template... smite the tEQ!
Armor is good too, front: 13 Side: 11 (not so hot...) Rear: 10 (normal... you don't want this thing assaulted)

Range 24 can be a bit of a bitch but thats actually decent, plus the template thins out horde and can hit tanks and pop 'em.

Takeing extra armor is a good idea to to ignore stunned as shaken, now you can move away and not get stuck in the path of an assault.
Thats what I think!

 

[Doelago]

I personally Think Vindicator is a great SM tank.
115 point for codex, strength 10 AP2 large template... smite the tEQ!
Armor is good too, front: 13 Side: 11 (not so hot...) Rear: 10 (normal... you don't want this thing assaulted)

Range 24 can be a bit of a bitch but thats actually decent, plus the template thins out horde and can hit tanks and pop 'em.

Takeing extra armor is a good idea to to ignore stunned as shaken, now you can move away and not get stuck in the path of an assault.
Thats what I think!

Thanks for the reply, the tank sounds very good, and you are right about not wanting it in assault... No tank should be THAT close to the enemy... I will consider a Vinidcator or two (Or three ) and see what else people throw at me...

 

[jaws900]

which marine codex are you using? I will asume the nilla codex unless you say otherwise so here is what i think.

Rhino - The perfect ransport for a mech force. Cheap and chearful and does it's job (which is to deliver it's load) however it's rather fragile and can kill much and as a rule it will almsot never make it's points back. Personly i use it with Extra armour and then eaither unload my men or shoot from the hatch until it pops giving your mainres an "extra life".

Razorback - More Expensive than the Rhino but it can actually shoot in exchange for a smaller transport cappasity. However they get expensive quickly. they cna also only transport 6 modals so you can't transport normal tactial squads easily. Best used with Sternguard and the like.

Drop Pod - Key for the "suiside Dreadnought" tactic but otherwise has limited use as you need atleast 3 to get any proper use out of it and them you have 3 easy kill points liying around. Take it if you want a Melta Dread tho.

Dreadnought - Normaly put into 3 Catagorys; Dakka, Suiside, Bog Strandard. Dakka is normaly 2 Autocannon arms and works real well. Suiside is just as cheap as it comes with a drop pod and drops down, pops a tank and done. if it lives that a bouns. and lastly Bog Standard is normaly what most "fun" players do which is just use what ever you get in the box. Personly i would recomend the Suiside over the others.

Venrable Dreanought - a Much better Dakka dread than the normal one thanks to a higher BS and the Venerable special rule. Take one of these if you want a Dakka dread.

Ironclad Dreandougt - I love mine. Best anti-tank weapon there is and can even pop monaliths....but it's slow so make sure you put it in a pod and as many hunter killers as possible then unload your payload when you arrive and hope you live to see combat next turn.

Land Speeders - Can be in units which is a bonus but a Melta/Flamer combo kills almost everyhting and is quite cheap for what it does. A speedy melta or flamer...yes please. However you sneeze and they blow up so be carful.

Land Speeder Storm - Unless you take scouts then avoid this. If you do take scouts they are great agianst most armys and make sure you give it a Heavy flamer to negate it's poor BS(for marines)

Thunderfire Cannon - Ok it's artilary but who cares. not that great and unless your a gunline then avoid.

LandRaider - 2nd toughest tank in the game (outside Apocalypse). Hard to stop, hard hitting, Assault ramps....but man is it a point sink and massive fire magnet. Most would advise you take them in pairs or other variants.

Landraider Crussander - (See above as well) Your Terminator transport thanks to a higher transport capasity. It can also move 6" and fire EVERY weapon so can lay down more fire power. Best used agianst armys which have lots of weak troops (such as Nids and Guard)

Landraider Redeemer - (See above as well) Cheapest otu of the 3 and also bosts 2 Flame strom cannons, possibly the best template weapons in the game. MUST be given a Multi-melta. bust used agianst Horde armys. Also unlike it's cousins the Redeemer can work on it's own it needed.

Predator - Gunline armys love these and they can be rather cheap.....to start with. I adise taking them with Autocannon and x2 Lascannons and not all lascannons other wise the poitns gets insane.

Whirlwind - Not that great, best agianst horde armys but even then there are better things for anti-horde.

Vindicator - Ya. I'ts bad ass but you NEED to take them in pairs atleast. nothing can stand long agianst the "Omega Mega Cannon" (my pet name for it)


I hope that helps somewhat and i hope i got the right codex otherwise i have to go thought all this agian :threaten:
Anyway my recomendations for a Mech baced army would probbaly be 2 Rhinos(fileld with tactials), A Landraider(any kind) with Assault Terminators, a pair of vindicators and you HQ. That should be about 1000-1500 depending on what options you take and HQ.

 

[Stephen_Newman]

I think that whirlwinds are very underestimated. Some people deliberately play horde armies to negate those lists designed for marines. A whirlwind is cheap and rather more killy on any kind of infantry than it looks. It also launches a giant pie plate to catch more enemies.

Although I have recently had success combining it with a tank popping unit. The transport gets taken out first then the troops are clustered for that pie plate. This could work with vindis but the I prefer whirlwind since it has longer range and can fire indirectly so there is less chance of retaliation on your vehicle.

 

[Ultra111]

I think Jaws pretty much nailed it to be honest, but Whirlwinds are better than what he says I think Adding on to what he said he would advise, I would say a dreadnaught (ironclad my favourite) in a drop pod.

 

[Doelago]

From what I have heard now, I have planned the following (Kind of)...

A captain with a command squad in a razorback, supported by two rhinos carrying Tac squads... Maybe a small Scout squad... Two Vindicators and 1 Landrider... Assault Termies? Not sure how many points that is, but I would still like a Landspeeder storm for the scouts... Any suggestions of a better build?

 

[Ultra111]

HQ
Captain with Power Sword and artificer armour - 130
~attached to~
5-man command squad in razorback - 155

ELITES
Terminator Assault Squad with TH and SH - 200

TROOPS
10-man tactical squad with flamer and ML in rhino - 205
10-man tactical squad with flamer and ML in rhino - 205
5-man scout squad in Land Speeder Storm - 125
5-man scout squad in Land Speeder Storm - 125

HEAVY SUPPORT
Vindicator with extra armour - 130
Vindicator with extra armour - 130
Land Raider crusader - 250

Total points - 1655

Is this the sort of list your looking for? If we get a starting point (and a point limit) it will be easier to help you mate.

 

[Doelago]

HQ
Captain with Power Sword and artificer armour - 130
~attached to~
5-man command squad in razorback - 155

ELITES
Terminator Assault Squad with TH and SH - 200

TROOPS
10-man tactical squad with flamer and ML in rhino - 205
10-man tactical squad with flamer and ML in rhino - 205
5-man scout squad in Land Speeder Storm - 125
5-man scout squad in Land Speeder Storm - 125

HEAVY SUPPORT
Vindicator with extra armour - 130
Vindicator with extra armour - 130
Land Raider crusader - 250

Total points - 1655

Is this the sort of list your looking for? If we get a starting point (and a point limit) it will be easier to help you mate.

Very nice, have some rep! I am looking for something at around 1500-2000pts, and I want it to be very mobile, so lots of weapons that can be fired on the move will be needed, as I have a vision of marines charging to claim objectives at the same time as the tanks pour fire into the foe! Thanks for the list!

 

[Ultra111]

thanks for rep mate. Will help you some more later tonight (hopefully)

 

[Doelago]

thanks for rep mate.

No need to thank me, I am always willing to rep people that I see as good for the forum, and especially people that are helpful! :drinks:

 

[klebold]

I swear by vindicators. And so far they have popped a vehicle every game i've fielded one (most recently i got weapon destroyed then everything ignored it. I then started ramming other vehicles and even popped one).

What is more of a bonus was that it was pointed out to me that they can move and fire. I was always under the impression they couldn't since it was ordnance but i was getting confused with ordnance barrage.

 

[Medic Marine]

What is more of a bonus was that it was pointed out to me that they can move and fire. I was always under the impression they couldn't since it was ordnance but i was getting confused with ordnance barrage.

Yup the ability to movew six inched and drop a pie plate is awsome!

Also Termies are exspensive! an assault squad with chaplain can do a good number with less points. (Yes they die easier and less power weapons but Litanies of hate!) I think assault squads get under used, and if your gonna pay the points... Vanguard vets with chaplain in the land raider... thats a solid hit!
Put that in your land raider and assualt with it!

 

[search116]

which marine codex are you using? I will asume the nilla codex unless you say otherwise so here is what i think.

Rhino - The perfect ransport for a mech force. Cheap and chearful and does it's job (which is to deliver it's load) however it's rather fragile and can kill much and as a rule it will almsot never make it's points back. Personly i use it with Extra armour and then eaither unload my men or shoot from the hatch until it pops giving your mainres an "extra life".

Razorback - More Expensive than the Rhino but it can actually shoot in exchange for a smaller transport cappasity. However they get expensive quickly. they cna also only transport 6 modals so you can't transport normal tactial squads easily. Best used with Sternguard and the like.

Drop Pod - Key for the "suiside Dreadnought" tactic but otherwise has limited use as you need atleast 3 to get any proper use out of it and them you have 3 easy kill points liying around. Take it if you want a Melta Dread tho.

Dreadnought - Normaly put into 3 Catagorys; Dakka, Suiside, Bog Strandard. Dakka is normaly 2 Autocannon arms and works real well. Suiside is just as cheap as it comes with a drop pod and drops down, pops a tank and done. if it lives that a bouns. and lastly Bog Standard is normaly what most "fun" players do which is just use what ever you get in the box. Personly i would recomend the Suiside over the others.

Venrable Dreanought - a Much better Dakka dread than the normal one thanks to a higher BS and the Venerable special rule. Take one of these if you want a Dakka dread.

Ironclad Dreandougt - I love mine. Best anti-tank weapon there is and can even pop monaliths....but it's slow so make sure you put it in a pod and as many hunter killers as possible then unload your payload when you arrive and hope you live to see combat next turn.

Land Speeders - Can be in units which is a bonus but a Melta/Flamer combo kills almost everyhting and is quite cheap for what it does. A speedy melta or flamer...yes please. However you sneeze and they blow up so be carful.

Land Speeder Storm - Unless you take scouts then avoid this. If you do take scouts they are great agianst most armys and make sure you give it a Heavy flamer to negate it's poor BS(for marines)

Thunderfire Cannon - Ok it's artilary but who cares. not that great and unless your a gunline then avoid.

LandRaider - 2nd toughest tank in the game (outside Apocalypse). Hard to stop, hard hitting, Assault ramps....but man is it a point sink and massive fire magnet. Most would advise you take them in pairs or other variants.

Landraider Crussander - (See above as well) Your Terminator transport thanks to a higher transport capasity. It can also move 6" and fire EVERY weapon so can lay down more fire power. Best used agianst armys which have lots of weak troops (such as Nids and Guard)

Landraider Redeemer - (See above as well) Cheapest otu of the 3 and also bosts 2 Flame strom cannons, possibly the best template weapons in the game. MUST be given a Multi-melta. bust used agianst Horde armys. Also unlike it's cousins the Redeemer can work on it's own it needed.

Predator - Gunline armys love these and they can be rather cheap.....to start with. I adise taking them with Autocannon and x2 Lascannons and not all lascannons other wise the poitns gets insane.

Whirlwind - Not that great, best agianst horde armys but even then there are better things for anti-horde.

Vindicator - Ya. I'ts bad ass but you NEED to take them in pairs atleast. nothing can stand long agianst the "Omega Mega Cannon" (my pet name for it)


I hope that helps somewhat and i hope i got the right codex otherwise i have to go thought all this agian :threaten:
Anyway my recomendations for a Mech baced army would probbaly be 2 Rhinos(fileld with tactials), A Landraider(any kind) with Assault Terminators, a pair of vindicators and you HQ. That should be about 1000-1500 depending on what options you take and HQ.

IN no way to sound mean but the land raidercrusader can move 12 inches and fire all weapons because the hurricane bolters are considered defensive weapons since there str 4.

 

[space cowboy]

For my part, going off Ultra's list, I dislike the standard scout, even in a landspeeder storm, even in a mechanized list. I would much rather have Sniper-Camo Scouts with Tellion. He can pick out specifically harmful models from an enemy unit (such as a melta gun, heavy weapon, or sergeant), gets 2 shots at BS 6, and if you carry a missle launcher in the unit, can assist the missle launcher to shoot a mid-armor tank if necessary. That particular squad can be the one that sits on the nearest objective in an objective-based game.

Also I would buy the Land Raider Crusader as a dedicated transport for the Assault Terminators because it frees up a heavy slot, allowing you to buy another Vindicator (my vote for best marine tank available) depending on the point limit. In addition, I might consider Chronus in place of extra armor on one Vindicator if you have the points. He allows the template to scatter one fewer inch and ignores both Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned. It can be a huge advantage.

As to other types of tanks, I would avoid the Whirlwind. I have neither seen it (with opponents and allies) nor had it (when I've used it) do anything near its point cost in damage since 2nd edition.

 

[Ultra111]

Also Termies are exspensive! an assault squad with chaplain can do a good number with less points. (Yes they die easier and less power weapons but Litanies of hate!) I think assault squads get under used, and if your gonna pay the points... Vanguard vets with chaplain in the land raider... thats a solid hit!
Put that in your land raider and assualt with it!

Assault squads need 10 men, or they can die pretty quickly. That's already 190 points. add the chaplain its 290 points. Already 90 points more. If you wanna upgrade that assault squad and chaplain, your looking at 300+ points, 100 points more than S10 2+ saves with 10 attacks, and only for 200 points. You can always give the terminators a chaplain.

For my part, going off Ultra's list, I dislike the standard scout, even in a landspeeder storm, even in a mechanized list. I would much rather have Sniper-Camo Scouts with Tellion. He can pick out specifically harmful models from an enemy unit (such as a melta gun, heavy weapon, or sergeant), gets 2 shots at BS 6, and if you carry a missle launcher in the unit, can assist the missle launcher to shoot a mid-armor tank if necessary. That particular squad can be the one that sits on the nearest objective in an objective-based game.

Telion is awesome, and cheap. Do exactly as space cowboy said. Put them in a storm, equip them with sniper rifles and a ML and your on your way. BUT DO NOT give them camo cloaks! So many people do this, but all the camo cloak does is give them stealth USP, but telion gives his squad this rule anyway, so it's a waste of points!
You can still have a sniper squad without telion. Same weapon loads, and in a storm.

Also I would buy the Land Raider Crusader as a dedicated transport for the Assault Terminators because it frees up a heavy slot, allowing you to buy another Vindicator (my vote for best marine tank available) depending on the point limit. In addition, I might consider Chronus in place of extra armor on one Vindicator if you have the points. He allows the template to scatter one fewer inch and ignores both Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned. It can be a huge advantage.

That's good advice. Put the land raider crusader as dedicated transport (thats what I meant to do, but I did write the list in 5 minutes, my bad) for the assault terminators. Vindicator that last slot. Chronus is good as well, but for more points. Up to you and the points limit really.

 

[Vaz]

Khan on Bike
Bike Command Squad (all with Meltaguns, Storm Shields, and mixed LClaws and THams)

3x5 Bikes with Double Melta+PFist
2x10 Tactical marines with RBack, Missiles, Melta's, Combi Melta + PFist
2 LS with MM/HF
Trip Vindicators (nude)

Counters for pretty much everything, and that command squad is hard as nails.

 

[Ultra111]

Khan on Bike
Bike Command Squad (all with Meltaguns, Storm Shields, and mixed LClaws and THams)

3x5 Bikes with Double Melta+PFist
2x10 Tactical marines with RBack, Missiles, Melta's, Combi Melta + PFist
2 LS with MM/HF
Trip Vindicators (nude)

Counters for pretty much everything, and that command squad is hard as nails.

Only thing I'm not sure about is the razorback with the tactical squad. Sure, more fire support, but what about the lack of transport? Unless you combat squad them.

Other than that can't really comment on a bikes list because I've never used one

 

[Winterous]

IN no way to sound mean but the land raidercrusader can move 12 inches and fire all weapons because the hurricane bolters are considered defensive weapons since there str 4.

Um, this isn't true at all.
It's not a Fast vehicle, and POTMS allows it to fire one more weapon than normal, so it can fire 2 non-defensive weapons while moving up to 6".

 

[Ultra111]

Um, this isn't true at all.
It's not a Fast vehicle, and POTMS allows it to fire one more weapon than normal, so it can fire 2 non-defensive weapons while moving up to 6".

I'll have to back winterous up there.