Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,277 Posts
Generally people prefer the Slaanesh, Undivided, or Nurgle Daemon weapons. The reason for these preferences are as follows. Note I am rounding to the closest full numbers.

1: Tzeentch Daemon weapon: is for all intensive purposes a weaker version of what Thousand sons are now designed to do.It will on average produce 3 shots, 2 of which will hit, and 1-2 will wound depending on what you shoot at. If the enemy is in cover then you will typically only kill one enemy with your daemon weapon at range. Now in close combat the weapon really starts to show its weakness, and that of any marine character that only has a power weapon at base strength. Now at best you will get 9 attacks 6-7 of which will hit. If you fighting marines this will typically generate 3 wounds, less if they have any kinda invulnerable save. Keep in mind this is at best so realistically your looking at your lord killing 1-2 marines or 2-4 guardsmen which really isn't that impressive for a tolled up lord who costs 145+ pts.

Working on averages against marines your typical kill rates will be like so.
Ranged= 1 Melee= 2 Neting 2-3 kills if you shot, and then assault the enemy

2: Khorne Daemon weapons: The main draw back to this weapon is its pathetic str4 ,and its more then doubled chance of it hurting the user with it generally rebelling 30% of the time. Also it only really shines at killing T3 enemies.

Averages (If you don't sit their cutting yourself) Vs marines on the charge.
Melee: 3 kills (Do not send him against anything that's T4 with a 5+ inv).

Now I am not going to even bother with the Slaanesh or nurgle explanations, but here are the main reasons for why ppl pick them.

Slaanesh: you only have to wound once to kill a hive tyrant or anything that's not a eternal warrior.

Nurgle: 3-4 kills in melee vs Marines or 2 wounds against anything that's T5+ without inv saves.

Or you could just go with the undivided weapon which comes with the ability to penetrate most vehicles on a 6+ (Rear armor), and will on the charge vs MeQ generate a average of 3 wounds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
594 Posts
By-The-Numbers, Nurgle is best. Wounds on 4+, with rerolls against anything with T4 or lower.

Khorne is also nice, but has the potential to go terribly, terribly wrong. You'll also have trouble against anything T6 or higher.

Slaanesh is nice for the insta-kills, but is kinda wasted against 1-wound models. Also the Cheapest of the 4 gods, so thats good.

Tzeentch isn't usually worth it. A Daemon Weapon is CC focused, and you get no cool CC bonuses with Tzeentch.

Undivided is sweet if you're on a budget. +1 S is nothing to scoff at.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Yeah I think the Best Daemon weapon is a Powerfist. sorry for their points the daemon weapons blow. I have playtested all of them and they suck even with good rolls. If you are gonna use a Chaos Lord keep him dirt cheap so you can buy more troops( i find just give him a power fist and throw him in a squad that needs another power fist)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,090 Posts
Bliss giver. the best daemon weapon hands down. i cant tell you how many kills i have got against enemy HQs with this weapon because their are many. i recently havent used one for a while because i love running lash princes. but still instant death rule is awesome. ive killed almost every space marine hq except marneus and lysander. including casius. but yea slaanesh bliss giver is amazing
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
390 Posts
Nurgle! -insert fan reason here-:yahoo:

Even if I wasn't so fond of big-bloaty I would still take the plague bringer as you can nail monstrous creatures and becomes effectively a lightning claw with +D6 attacks against marines!:shok::yahoo:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
594 Posts
Yeah I think the Best Daemon weapon is a Powerfist. sorry for their points the daemon weapons blow. I have playtested all of them and they suck even with good rolls. If you are gonna use a Chaos Lord keep him dirt cheap so you can buy more troops( i find just give him a power fist and throw him in a squad that needs another power fist)
Two problems with that:

1. He now strikes at I1 which is simply too low for a 115 pt (assuming no other upgrades) unit. When you consider that the Lord has natural I5, it seems kinda silly to waste that. PLus, since he strikes last, a few chumps with PWs could reasonably kill him. He doesn't have the Toughness or Invul save to back up striking last.

2. Only 3 Attacks, 4 on the charge. Thats a fairly low volume, especially against enemy HQs/MCs. After misses/failed wounds/invul saves, the odds of killing multi-wound T5 models is painfully low. If you're after insta-kills, may as well go with a Blissgiver so you strike at I6.


In conclusion: Leave the PFs on your champs. If you must give him a punchy weapon, at least go all in and give him Termie Armour/Chainfist. That way he'll survive and kill walkers at least.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,090 Posts
yea why would you take a PF on a lord. thats the stupidest thing ever. if you dont want daemon weapons at least take a power weapon or lightning claws instead. striking a I1 means that enemy PF that are base to base with you can instant kill you in the same turn in combat. Your I5 and you dont have eternal warrior. i would suggest not ever taking a lord with a PF its a waste of points.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,122 Posts
personly i only ever go with a Khorne or undevided if i can. I have used a Tzeetch one and it actualy got me a draw instead of a loss becuase of that shooting attack.
Only take the Blissgiver if you want a Slannesh themed army and Nrugle only if you take Tyfus (as he HAS to use his Nurlge daemon weapon). Khone is good but riskly and the normal one can be useful if you just need a bit more power
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
594 Posts
The only prorblem with Khorne is the double chance of rolling a 1. It still won't usually happen, but trust me, it WILL happen right as you charge into that group of three x2 LC termies, who you were so sure your Lord could annihilate.

Nurgle can be just as good (due to re-rolls), while keeping you alive longer, and with less chance to eat your face.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,830 Posts

·
Moderator
Joined
·
4,491 Posts
Best Daemon weapon is held by a Daemon Prince.
I can never justify taking a Lord.
If i was going to take a non-DP HQ, id take Kharn.
If a HAD to take a Lord, the Nurgle weapon is the best by far.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
yea why would you take a PF on a lord. thats the stupidest thing ever. if you dont want daemon weapons at least take a power weapon or lightning claws instead. striking a I1 means that enemy PF that are base to base with you can instant kill you in the same turn in combat. Your I5 and you dont have eternal warrior. i would suggest not ever taking a lord with a PF its a waste of points.
becasue they sell the damn model thats why! haha

and to be honest why would you choose a chaos lord anyway when chaos has some of the best HQ's in the game. anyway you guys are right about the lord with power fist i just think its also a waste to have your leader attacking at a strength 4. he really does suck no furious charge, no feel no pain, no inferno bolts or psychic powers, no "insert special rule that slaanesh should freaking give this guy" sorry i just feel that the Lord should have a little more bite thats all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
nurgles' rerolls to wound (against T4 or less) can often be better than +1 strength
and if the model is high than T4, you will still wound on 4+ - it gets my vote!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,007 Posts
This question comes up probably once a month. :laugh:

Here are the numbers and my interpretation of them, but remember numbers and stats aren't everything. Choose the one you like the most not just the best.

OK here's the full mathhammer. I redid the Nurgle and Tzeentch ones because I made a mistake the first time around. Deconstruction of the data is at the bottom of this post.

Calculations are arranged as:
(Average Attacks)(To-Hit Chance)(To-Wound Chance)(Chance of Failing Armour/Invulnerable Save) = Kills --> Kills taking into account no attacks when rolling a 1.

Lord, DW = 130pts

VS GEqs:
(7.5)(4/6)(5/6)(6/6) + (1)(5/6)(4/6)(6/6) = 4.72 --> 4.0 kills.

VS MEqs:
(7.5)(4/6)(4/6)(6/6) + (1)(5/6)(3/6)(2/6) = 3.47 --> 2.9 kills.

VS TEqs:
(7.5)(4/6)(4/6)(4/6) + (1)(5/6)(3/6)(1/6) = 2.29 --> 1.9 kills.

VS MCs (T6 AS3+):
(7.5)(4/6)(2/6)(6/6) + (1)(5/6)(1/6)(2/6) = 1.71 --> 1.4 wounds.

Chance of no attacks: 1/6 = 17%
Chance of taking a wound: 1/9 = 11%



Lord, MoK (Extra Attack), DW = 140pts

VS GEqs:
(12)(4/6)(4/6)(6/6) + (1)(5/6)(4/6)(6/6) = 5.89 --> 4.3 kills.

VS MEqs:
(12)(4/6)(3/6)(6/6) + (1)(5/6)(3/6)(2/6) = 4.14 --> 2.9 kills.

VS TEqs:
(12)(4/6)(3/6)(4/6) + (1)(5/6)(3/6)(1/6) = 2.67 --> 1.9 kills.

VS MCs (T6 AS3+):
(12)(4/6)(1/6)(6/6) + (1)(5/6)(1/6)(2/6) = 1.38 --> 1.0 wounds.

Chance of no attacks: 11/36 = 31%
Chance of taking a wound: 44/216 = 20%



Lord, MoN (Extra Toughness), DW = 150pts

VS GEqs:
(7.5)(4/6)(3/6+[3/6][3/6])(6/6) + (1)(5/6)(4/6)(6/6) = 4.31 --> 3.7 kills.

VS MEqs:
(7.5)(4/6)(3/6+[3/6][3/6])(6/6) + (1)(5/6)(3/6)(2/6) = 3.89 --> 3.3 kills.

VS TEqs:
(7.5)(4/6)(3/6+[3/6][3/6])(4/6) + (1)(5/6)(3/6)(1/6) = 2.57 --> 2.1 kills.

VS MCs (T6 AS3+):
(7.5)(4/6)(3/6)(6/6) + (1)(5/6)(1/6)(2/6) = 2.55 --> 2.1 wounds

Chance of no attacks: 1/6 = 17%
Chance of taking a wound: 1/9 = 11%



Lord, MoT (Better ++Sv), DW = 145pts

VS GEqs:
(7.5)(4/6)(4/6)(6/6) + (3.5)(5/6)(4/6)(6/6) = 5.28 --> 4.4 kills.

VS MEqs:
(7.5)(4/6)(3/6)(6/6) + (3.5)(5/6)(3/6)(6/6) = 3.96 --> 3.3 kills.

VS TEqs:
(7.5)(4/6)(3/6)(4/6) + (3.5)(5/6)(3/6)(1/6) = 1.91 --> 1.6 kills.

VS MCs (T6 AS3+):
(7.5)(4/6)(1/6)(6/6) + (3.5)(5/6)(1/6)(6/6) = 1.32 --> 1.1 wounds.

Chance of no attacks: 1/6 = 17%
Chance of no shots: 1/6 = 17%
Chance of taking a wound: 5/36 = 14%
Chance of taking two wounds: 1/36 = 3%



Lord, MoS (Extra Initiative), DW = 135pts

I'm not going to bother. I can't represent ID in mathhammer. (I could I'm just too lazy). Leave it at home. It's only really worth it against nids, and against MCs you still have to roll a 6 to-wound. People get sucked in by the promise of ID.



Basically:
VS GEqs: Tzeentch > Khorne > Undivided > Nurgle
VS MEqs: Nurgle & Tzeentch > Khorne & Undivided
VS TEqs: Nurgle > Khorne & Undivided > Tzeentch
VS MCs: Nurgle > Undivided > Tzeentch > Khorne

All-round Nurgle is the best. Khorne has it's moments of brilliance, but is by no means reliable. Forget about Undivided, 2LCs and MoK is much more useful. Tzeentch is pretty poor, Put a combi-flamer on the others and they will outperform it, you also have a chance of losing 2 wounds in one turn. Again it's still up to you in the end.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
I enjoy the MoT daemon weapon as you can use it in both the shooting and assault phase... 1d6 shots in shooting phase of str 4 ap 3 then if in assault range you can charge in and still get up to 10 power weapon attacks! I doubt most ppl look at that though. since a daemon weapon gets its profile, plus the added benfits fromt aking or not taking a mark.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
Also, Tzeentch lord has a better invulnerable save to help out if he rolls a 1 in the shooting or assault phase.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top