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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

Well I finally came up with what turns out ot be my first DH army 1500 points (hopefully). Since I havn't played yet I tried to make it as generic as possible in order to go against any foe. this list hasn't got all the additional powers and equipment I should give my army so any help with this would be much appreciated. Your thoughts and ideas are most welcome, so without further ado:

HQ
BC Stern (any additional equipment, psy powers,...?)
5 GK Termies as retinue (Psycannon and Heavy Flamer)

TROOPS

8 GKs (2 Psycannons)
10 Imperial Storm Troopers (1 Plasma, 1 Melta)

FAST ATTACK

8 GKs (2 Heavy Flamers)

HEAVY SUPPORT
2 Dreadnoughts (TLLC, CCW, extra armour, smoke launchers)
1 Ironclad Dread (CCW, Seismic Hammer, flamer and storm bolter, extra armour, smoke launchers)

Now I know I need a land raider, and I can go up to 1750 in order to squezeze the land raider (should it be a crusader, redeemer?).

Sorry if I missed any information, it's my first time doing this list so be gentle..:biggrin:. Cheers!
 

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With the IST make them specific so either give them 2 melta guns or 2 plasma guns. I would lower their squad number and give them a rhino.
Move the fast attack GK squad to troops, DS is just not good if you mishap there is an expensive unit gone, plus they cant capture in 5th.

Dreadnoughts look ok but for more anti tank i would swap out the DDCW for ML.
Where did you get the iron clad dread from? they arent in out codex. By rough calculations you should have 160pts left.

So list could look like this:

HQ
BC Stern (any additional equipment, psy powers,...?)
5 GK Termies as retinue (Psycannon and Heavy Flamer)


8 GKs (2 Psycannons)
5 Imperial Storm Troopers (2 meltas, rhino)
8 GKs (2 Heavy Flamers)

HEAVY SUPPORT
2 Dreadnoughts (TLLC, CCW, extra armour, smoke launchers)
 

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Stern can't take any extra Wargear...he has what it states, nothing else.

Other than that I agree with HL-Cs thoughts.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
With the IST make them specific so either give them 2 melta guns or 2 plasma guns. I would lower their squad number and give them a rhino.
Move the fast attack GK squad to troops, DS is just not good if you mishap there is an expensive unit gone, plus they cant capture in 5th.

Dreadnoughts look ok but for more anti tank i would swap out the DDCW for ML.
Where did you get the iron clad dread from? they arent in out codex. By rough calculations you should have 160pts left.

So list could look like this:

HQ
BC Stern (any additional equipment, psy powers,...?)
5 GK Termies as retinue (Psycannon and Heavy Flamer)


8 GKs (2 Psycannons)
5 Imperial Storm Troopers (2 meltas, rhino)
8 GKs (2 Heavy Flamers)

HEAVY SUPPORT
2 Dreadnoughts (TLLC, CCW, extra armour, smoke launchers)
Actually I didn't consider the Ironclad as a different unit as a normal Dread, but you are right. Sorry for that beginner's mistake.
You sugguest a Rhino, I was thinking a Land raider, what's best? Rhino is for IST and LR are for GKs? In any case what weapons you recommend in each one?

One more thing, is hollocaust or any other psychic power useful so I can include it?

Thanks for your help!
 

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You can't take both the psycannon and the incinerator on the termis if they are chosen as a retinue, you can only upgrade 1 marine.

5 ISTs is abit small to warrant taking the overpriced rhino, up the squad size

The LR is a great unit to help vs tanks, and an agressive transport, ,but high point cost.

I would recommend you get a cheep unit of ISTs with plasmas to sit in cover on your home objective.

I know what the others have said but I don't like the missile launcher on dreads, and would stick to the DCCW

You cant take holocaust on any one you have no one who can use it.
 

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As far as a Melta-toting IST Squad size goes, my usual Squads are -
5 - Men, 2 with Meltaguns in a Rhino w/ EA, SL...these are suicide anti-tank so don't need to be any larger.

However, these Squads do need to be spammed, but dependent on how much AV you face.

The IST Squads with 2 Plasma Guns are for taking and holding Objectives...8/10 Men is ideal and in a Rhino w/ EA, SL. Depending on size of the game I take 1 to every 3 Melta Squads.

IST's with any other weapons apart from Plasma/Melta is a waste.

Rhinos are definitely for IST's, and LR's for GK(T), especially if taking Incinerators (not called Heavy Flamers btw) because you want them across the board safely.

If your future goal is to field a competitive pure GK force then you need LR's...I have 2 Crusaders and 1 Phobos (standard) Land Raider, plus TLLC/ML Dreads (one area where GK suffer is at long range shooting, so I like this set-up more than any other).

The best GK Units I've found are either -
6/8 - Men w/ standard gear
5 - Men w/ 2 Psycannons as a firebase
8 - Men w/ 2 Incinerators assaulting out of a LRC

GKT Squads -
GM and Retinue w/ 1 Incinerator out of a LRC
GM and Retinue w/ 2 Psycannons (1 for GM, 1 for Retinue) walking
GKT Squads are the same as above

Squad size depends on the game-size, but I like 6 to 8 - Men usually, although 4 is fine in really small games.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Thanks, that was really a GK 101 for me. I'll post my final list later this month. i have to fisnish painting the IST.

One more thing, when counting squad points should I use the most recent codex (for the LRC, Rhino, Dread, and IST), or should I use the ones given in the DH Codex? I think the former but doesn't hurt to ask...

Cheers
 

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Try this:

HQ
Brother Captain w/psychic hood - 81
Retenue 4x GK Termies, 1x TH&SS - 184

Troops
5x IST w/ 2x Melta, Rhino, Smoke - 123
5x IST w/ 2x Melta, Rhino, Smoke - 123
5x IST w/ 2x Melta, Rhino, Smoke - 123 (This could also have 2x Plasma)
Justicar w/Melta Bombs & 6 PAKG's - 205

2x LRC w/Smoke - 516
Dread w/TLLC Missiles, EA - 145

1500 even and gives you 4 troops, lots of melta, lots of dakka, the ability to screen your Landraiders with the rhinos so they can advance and GK LRC's can move 12" per turn and fire all of their guns.
 

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The psychic hood gives you a 50% chance to nullify any enemy psychic powers used on the entire game board, with a leadership test of 10. Even though the GK's have the aegis, for PAGK's it's ld 9 and the storm troopers don't have any protection outside of their rhinos.

Dropping one of the IST squads will allow you to get a grandmaster in and still have 3 troop choices though you lose some of your rhino screen. However, I believe that the GM is overpriced. I've used the GM a number of times before and I've never had him earn back his points. My IST's earn their points in every game. The GM's initiative of 5 is hardly a game changer against most MC's and Super Killy Assault units though the force weapon that ignores Eternal Warrior can come in handy I find that the GKT squad can hold its own. Having said that, I usually take out MC's and super killy assault units with melta and plasma fire from my storm troopers and dread. I mainly use my GKT's to clear & contest objectives and tear through enemy troops/elites.

However, ask and you shall receive:

HQ
GK Grandmaster w/psychic hood & Hammerhand - 175
Retenue 4x GK Termies - 184

Troops
5x IST w/ 2x Melta, Rhino, Smoke - 123
5x IST w/ 2x Melta, Rhino, Smoke - 123
Justicar w/Melta Bombs, Targeter & 7 PAKG's - 231

2x LRC w/Smoke & Light - 518
Dread w/TLLC Missiles, Light, EA - 146

Hammerhand basically did the same thing as the TH&SS but @ I5. Great if you need to take out a walker. I upped the PAGK squad and gave the justicar a targeter. Some folks use frags but since I use LRC's which have the frag launchers, I find that a targeter comes in handy in case the LRC gets popped and I need to scoot and shoot. I also put lights on the big stuff to handle night fighting a little better for DOW deployment games. Again, you may find that this suits you a little better. I would say try both if you have the models. I also have a 3rd 1500 list that drops the dread in favor of an inqusitor with 2 mystics to help with Deepstrike protection, though I stopped using that since I don't face many deepstriking opponents.

Sorry for the novel.
 

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Psychic hood is used because it can nullify all psychic powers used while the aegis rule only works on psychic powers that target a GK squad. So for example scourging can be stopped but say something like fortune for eldar cant be stopped.

As for the above list i dont think GMs are too overpriced and if used right can get back their points. Sure I5 would only work against carnifexs (and trygons) but it works well against troops where you can strike before they can and take out units before the GKT strike.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Using the points in the DH codex really sucks, but well ...what can we do.

Thank you all for the advice and the lists, however I see that they are more Inquisition oriented. I am trying to build a pure (or almost pure) GK army with some Inquisition for backup, so I came up with the following:

HQ
BC Stern
Retinue 4x GKT (1 Psycannon)

TROOPS
Justicar, 7 PAGKs (two Incinerators)
Justicar, 4 PAGKs (two Pyscannons)
5 IST w/2Melta in Rhino w/ smoke and light

HEAVY SUPPORT
1 LRC w/Smoke, EA
2 Dreads TLLC and ML, EA, Smoke

I think this lists is somewhere near the 1500 line (a little over I guess) I really like the idea of a IST squad with meltas in a Rhino, so I included one, not sure if two are necessary in order to have more laser firepower. But as Hobo said I reckon they are a suicide squad.

I'm still not sure about including any psychic power in there with Stern or the GKTs, Stern comes fully loaded and I am not sure if the GKTs are able to have any power aside the hollocaust, or if it's worth the points.

Last but not least, I know the LRC should have a twin in there but for the time being I am willing to try both Dreads. One more thing, this Dread config. is for long range, anti tank shooting. What about close combat? Should I fit one of them with a DCCW instead?
 

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Dreads with CCW's work well enough...personally I think whether or not you should field one will depend on playing a few games and deciding for yourself- 'suck it and see' as they say.

One of the main reasons for me when choosing Dreads over LR(C)'s is that by taking Dreads you can field more GK(T)...which is awesome.

Psychic Powers...tbh I only ever take either Hammerhand or Sacred Incense, screw the rest, unless it's against Daemons in a Tourney setting where Sanctuary is almost an 'auto-win' button.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Just out of curiosity, I was looking at the IG codex, and couldn't find any rhino transport in there. I reckon this means that the IST cannot use a Rhino? If so, I am curious to know what is the "bypass" by which the IST can actually make use of a Rhino. Any thoughts??
 

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IST stands for inquistorial storm troopers, not imperial gaurd storm troopers. In the DH codex they can take either rhinos or chimeras as transports.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
IST stands for inquistorial storm troopers, not imperial gaurd storm troopers. In the DH codex they can take either rhinos or chimeras as transports.
Whooops, sorry my mistake. Thanks for the correction...:eek:k:
 
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