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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My friends and I recently finished a campaign where I played CSM. It's helped me focus in on the units I really enjoy taking. Gifts are something I have especially been enjoying. My lord started one game with a 2+ re-rollable armor save! Even if I don't get the best result, it's a wonderful little bit of flavor added to the game.

CSM + Daemons (Unbound 1000)
Huron (Warlord) - 160
30 Cultists: 3 flamers - 145
Huron and cultists just go so well together. Probably my third choice for infiltrate so I can outflank.

Herald of Slaanesh: exalted reward, beguilement, level 1 - 130
17 Daemonettes - 153
Taking a roll on telepathy for invisibility or psychic shriek. Using the grimoire in an attempt to survive the round after deep strike. Although I might roll on malefic to try for cursed earth or summoning in larger games when I have the level 3 Sorcerer's warp charge to draw from.

5 Chosen: 2 meltaguns, power axe, melta bombs, rhino - 155
Cheaper than plague marines for 2 special weapons and a bit more offensive. I tried to make this a utility knife unit. The buried power axe should hopefully get a least one swing in at whatever I assault. This unit is my second choice for infiltrate.

7 havocs: 4 autocannons, veterans - 148
Always infiltrating, yay! Almost back to the glory days of Alpha Legion's str8 infiltrating autocannons.

Predator: autocannon, heavy bolters, havoc launcher - 107
Dakka dakka.

2000
Sorcerer: slaanesh, steed, sigil, level 3, spell familiar, sword, melta bombs, gift - 200
5 Spawn: slaanesh - 165
My favorite unit right here. I roll all 3 on biomancy hoping for endurance, warp speed and iron arm. Its purpose in life is to suicide in wherever it can cause the most damage.

Lord: nurgle, bike, daemonheart, sigil, power fist, lightning claw, blight grenades, melta bombs, gift - 185
5 Bikes: nurgle, 2 meltaguns, melta bombs - 165
The anvil.

Helldrake: hades autocanon - 170
Every CSM army needs a Helldrake. If only because you can't assault fliers.

Predator: autocannon, lascannons - 115
Obligatory lascannons.
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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Why infiltrate the Havocs? I mean, it seems like you have the range you need with them--why not go with the Daemonettes, or something?

I would personally modify that Herald to have a Greater Reward (greater etherblade) and a Steed, Outflanking those Daemonettes with Acute Senses--yeah, you'd lose out on the risky bonus of Grimoire, but you'd be able to tear your way through a whole bunch more enemies...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Infiltrating the Havocs allows me to get a side armor alpha strike on a vehicle. It can really make the difference with str 7. Think Chimeras, predators and battle wagons. Sometimes it allows me to negate a vehicle's cover save with good LoS. It also messes with my opponents head to have 8 s7 shots coming in from anywhere first turn when they're deploying. It's something I've come to rely on after playing so much Alpha Legion.

You are dead on about the herald. I've really only got a grip on the CSM codex, still learning Daemons. The most I ever run is a unit each of horrors and daemonettes. And the occasional soul grinder.

I was pondering the steed and decided against it. But I wasn't thinking about a few things. I forgot about acute senses, that's certainly a reliable way to get on the table with a +3" run.

I've certainly felt the pain of trying to win challenges with just rending. The etherblade does seem an auto take. Especially because it allows much greater use out of beguilement. The more damaging herald should hopefully make up for all the extra daemonettes I lose.

Even better though is I don't have to get murdered every third game because grimoire failed!

O and I don't want to infiltrate the daemonettes because i'd have to spend an infiltrate on the herald as well. Might be worth it some games though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Updated the list a bit to go with the changes mentioned above.

CSM + Daemons (Unbound 1000)
Huron (Warlord) - 160
31 Cultists: 3 flamers - 149
If I roll a 3, I'll probably infiltrate this whole unit.

Herald of Slaanesh: steed, lesser & greater rewards, beguilement, level 1 - 145
17 Daemonettes - 153
Outflanking with acute senses, yee-haw.

3 Terminators: combi-meltas, power axes, chain fist - 124
Had to shave points somewhere to change the herald and the chosen unit looked suspiciously like this one in purpose. I think it's better too as a disruption unit. The rhino/5 man chosen squad is nice to have on the table immediately, but it is going to get shredded too quickly. I suppose I could infiltrate this unit but deep strike feels better. It really depends on how much board presence I want immediately.

8 havocs: 4 autocannons, veterans - 162
Can always use more bodies on the most exposed unit. This is still my first candidate for infiltrate because now that there is less power armor on the board to shoot at turn one, I will probably need to deploy defensively with this unit whenever I go second.

Predator: autocannon, heavy bolters, havoc launcher - 107

2000
Sorcerer: slaanesh, steed, sigil, level 3, spell familiar, sword, melta bombs, gift - 200
5 Spawn: slaanesh - 165
In larger games this might be my first candidate for infiltrate.

Lord: nurgle, bike, daemonheart, sigil, power fist, lightning claw, blight grenades, melta bombs, gift - 185
5 Bikes: nurgle, 2 meltaguns, melta bombs - 165

Helldrake: hades autocanon - 170

Predator: autocannon, lascannons - 115
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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Herald of Slaanesh: steed, lesser & greater rewards, beguilement, level 1 - 145
Dunno if you need the lesser reward, honestly. I mean, you could take a second etherblade to give yourself +1 attack for 2 specialist weapons, I guess? Try to roll for adamantium will? Take an etherblade and the Lash of Despair? I don't think that 10 points will do much for you, though, when you could (say) throw a combi-plasma on the Pred for even more dakka.

I keep looking for ways to make your army Battle-forged, because my sensibilities haven't quite grown past that archaic relict of editions past, but then think to myself... even if you had cultists in 10 and 20 man squads instead (for a weaker infiltration with the 20-man)... cultists having Objective Secured really doesn't do you much, given how easy they are to shoo of an an objective, and you don't need to roll for your Warlord Trait with Huron... so where's the incentive to limit yourself like that? Basically, yeah, arguing myself around to your position without you having to say anything.

Clever on that Outflanking strategy--hadn't considered that, but you can certainly throw a wrench into the gears of your opponent's deployment like that, I could see it. Get side armor on that Exorcist or Vindi on Turn 1; get in a ruin with line of sight behind the big LOS blocker that most of his army is behind so you can snipe that Thunderfire Cannon on turn 1... yeah, I like that idea. Hadn't considered it before, but might integrate it into my quiver of ideas, now-adays.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
The lesser reward really is just for one more attack. I find 10pts for an attack on lords is usually worth it. That's why I'm still a bit sad at the loss of master-crafting.

Combi-plasma is something I hadn't thought of on the dakka predator. The extra str 7 shot in there would help the light anti-tank duty while the extra ap2 shots at close range are great for surviving aggressive or deep striking armies. I'm still really hesitant of the 24" range though. I find I almost never move my predators, only pivot to keep all their guns firing. What about a combi-bolter and warpflame gargoyles? It would do the job of putting a couple extra bolter hits on units at all ranges. The dakka predators main goal is to slowly clear units from objectives all games. Unless I'm facing Dark Eldar, then it's venom hunting all day. Hmm giving that combi-plasma more thought though as it does give off a bit of a "don't deep strike here" bubble.

I think CSM had some of the biggest wins from 7th edition. Yeah the Helldrake got hit hard with the nerf bat but... Letting wounds overflow from challenges, all units score and unbound are huge. No longer do you have to take 4 units of 10 cultists every game just to take objectives at the end. Everything scary for CSM is outside of the troops slot. As the codex has a heavy focus on characters, the freedom to take as many as needed is liberating. Especially when you no longer have to worry about marked lords for cult troops. So many more strategies are viable now. No longer is it just Codex: Helldrake, Juggerlord & Plague Marines.
 

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What about a combi-bolter and warpflame gargoyles?
Very possible, though the combi-bolter has only as much range as the combi-plasma. I've always rather discounted warpflame gargoyles (and Soul Blaze in general), but have played against them a few times, and--yeah, if you're shooting the Pred 4 or 5 turns straight, a 50% chance at a couple extra bolter hits every turn against whatever a dakkapred is shooting at isn't half bad.

I think CSM had some of the biggest wins from 7th edition. Yeah the Helldrake got hit hard with the nerf bat but... Letting wounds overflow from challenges, all units score and unbound are huge. No longer do you have to take 4 units of 10 cultists every game just to take objectives at the end. Everything scary for CSM is outside of the troops slot.
The think I don't like about wounds overflowing from challenges... is how much /harder/ it has made it to hide a melee unit in combat on the turn you charge, so enemy shooting can't slaughter your exposed melee characters.

The work-around I've found is to take that Hand of Darkness+Spineshiver Blade Lord that I've been flaunting around, recently. The turn you assault, you throw on the HoD with one attack, and the next round, you mop up the remaining light infantry with a bucketful of Daemon Weapon attacks. It's worked perfectly several times against Space Marine combat squads, who I can reliably catch, who can't get run down thanks to ATSKNF, and who are few enough to guarantee that I can wipe them all out on the follow-up. I know, we don't always get ideal match-ups, but...

*ahem* Grousing about the free bunches of extra kills GW have handed me on a silver platter aside--I completely agree. Yeah, the Heldrake got nerfed--but the new vehicle damage chart sure loves it and all other Daemon Engines! "Sure, we'll avoid 2/3 of Pen results on 2+, GW, if you insist." Daemonology? Kind of an alluring trap, but worth it for Cursed Earth alone. And even Troops can still be threatening: you can get 10 Objective Secured units with 5 squads of Blastmaster Noise Marines in Rhinos for 160 points per squad, and that's some painful MSU right there! Be'lakor has been turned into a 2+ cover-slinging god by the changes to Jink; Unbound freedom to take whatever you want... etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
That is a pretty slick strategy to keep your lord in combat for a turn using the hand of death. I don't play vs much MEQ so using all my attacks usually doesn't wipe the unit I charge but I can see its usefulness. I especially like how it turns ATSKNF into a weakness.

I also dig the blastmaster/rhino spam. Seems like a solid firing base to score behind all your fast assault troops.
 
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