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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My friend is building a new chaos daemon army (mainly centered around Khorne) and I was wondering:
What are some things I should be aware of when playing him? special Daemon abilities, annoyances etc.
Which units do I need in my army composition?
What are some tactics that have worked well for you against daemons?

Any help is appreciated even if you personally don't field Necrons. Thanks!
 

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In general I play Chaos Daemons so this is from the what I would not like to see perspective.

Firstly Daemons do no deploy, half of them Deep Strike on their first turn. That being the case you should usually force Daemons to go first if you can. Secondly they cannot assault out of deep strike leaving them all to be prime candidates for shooting up. To help this don't spread yourself out too much, don't be afraid to castle up on one part of the board. If you spread out too much all the daemons will drop around one part of your forces and over whelm it.

All daemons have invulnerable saves and Eternal Warrior so the quality of your shots rarely matters, just the volume. Lot and lots of shots from things like Warriors or Destroyers is good, I would particularly say Destroyers as they are mobile enough to kite the daemons.

Khrone Daemons are all about the close combat as you can imagine but they also do not have assault grenades because their god hates them. So ideally what you want is retreat your guys into terrain and shoot each deep strike formation. That just means you'll get to punch some Daemon face before they have a go.

Watch out for Soul Grinders, they're the big hitters as far as ranged power goes for Daemons, AV13 Walker with a Battle Cannon.

Aramoro
 

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Monoliths. As many monoliths as you can reasonably take.

Why? Because the only thing Daemons have that can hurt it is a Soul Grinder. Every other method Daemons have of hurting vehicles (MCs and one unit with meltabombs) can't do its special thing against a monolith, and is thus useless against it.

Seriously. If you have at least one Monolith and take out all his Soul Grinders, he physically can't pen it, and will at most have maybe a handful of things that can maybe glance it on 6s. In short, you win.

Other than that, just watch out for MCs, Bloodletters and Bloodcrushers. While they lack grenades, they'll also deprive you of We'll Be Back without a res orb. To a lesser extent the Slaanesh stuff can do the same, since most of them have Rending. Some things will also have Breath of Chaos, which will deny you armor saves but not WBB. Other than that, as Aramoro said, just shoot things to death as it deep strikes in and he won't be able to do much about it. In general, I don't think Daemons really have a prayer against Necrons unless they just take as many Bloodcrushers as possible and try to phase you out--my friend getting a Necron army is one of the many reasons I started collecting CSM as well.
 

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Phaaaaseeee out.

Seriously. Monoliths are limited against Daemons because you won't ignore our saves and if we do kill a unit it will be in Close Combat involving you getting swept so the extra WBB's won't be applicable.

Also the Soul Grinder can Pen it, it is S10 in Close Combat after all. Flamers can Glance it on a 4+ etc etc. But they simply won't bother , they'll just set about your troops.

Aramoro
 

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Which is why I said "take out the Soul Grinders" before the "you win". And do people really consider trying to ignore Daemons saves? The only things in the game that can do that at all are Daemonhunters and Pariahs. And as you said, it's about volume of shots, and if a monolith is in the middle of the battlefield they're very good at that. As for phase out, that's why I said as many monoliths as you can REASONABLY take. I'm not crazy enough to suggest taking 3 in a 1000 point game or something, but I still think taking 1, or 2 for a high point game, would be huge as long as he can take out the Soul Grinders right away.

I still say throw everything you have at their Soul Grinders, then use your monoliths to do all the fighting while you have your actual necrons run away like scared little school girls and overall keep them out of the game as much as possible, dragging it out as long as you can while you kill them off slowly with something they can't hurt.
 

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I like Destroyers vs Daemons because they have good mobility and range. This lets you hit them wherever they land and you can keep your distance. Wounding most Daemons on a 2+ is also nice, even if they do get a save.

I also like Monoliths vs Daemons, the Flux-Arc and P-Whip let you hit lots of models regardless of which one you fire, and it is almost impossible for Daemons to hurt.

Immortals are ok, but I would choose Destroyers first.

A pair of D-Lords with Warscythes attached to Wraiths (3x3) is an interesting alternative to Destroyers. The Lords hack through most things and the Wraiths have inv-saves. Then add Monoliths for big punches.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
So basically I need to skirt him, try to prevent phase out and take out his soul grinders so my Monoliths have free rein? Is having a VOD lord useful against daemons, or are they too busy deepstriking to care?
 

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My friend's wife is collecting a daemon army and this'll be great help for when I take her on. Thanks.
 

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One thing to remember: Soul Grinders (assuming he's using them) have a massive Deeptrike footprint, meaning that with proper deployment you can mostly dictate where he lands it. If possible, LoS your Monolith(s) from his likely landing zone so he can't Tongue you as soon as he pops up. S10 AP1 is scary even to a Mono.


Also, I just played a game with my new daemons vs my friend's Crons, and for the love of god keep your destroyers screened. My buddy lost over 400 pts (i think) of Destroyers on turn 1 because he left them out in the open, and my Horrors and Flamers dropped in all around them and shot them to ribbons. On the bright side, Warscythes are freaking terrifying. Use them.
 

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While VoD might not have some of its usual uses against Daemons since they do deep strike their entire force, what it CAN be very nice for is keeping your necrons away from his nasty melee smashy stuff, like bloodletters, bloodcrushers, MCs and soul grinders, that will perma-kill your guys. It's still extremely useful, just more so as a defensive survival tool against daemons rather than an offensive ground-gaining tool. Of course if he's smart and tries to keep his Soul Grinders away from things that can blow it up, you can also use that to go after it.
 

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monoliths are crap, if I'm fielding a daemon army and I see 3 monoliths in front of me I'll love it. And I don't run any soul grinders. The best way to beat daemons is shoot them. All daemons have invulnerable saves, so you have to go for number of shots rather than power of shots. You have a turn to shoot at everything he brings down before he assaults, if he's only khorne then even better. go for torrents and you'll kill them.

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3d6 shots at every unit within 12" is nothing to sniff at. Monoliths have a lot of uses that non-Necron players just don't understand. 3 Monoliths is a lot of trouble for Daemons.
 

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If i saw 3 Monoliths with my Daemons, i might just break the table in half with my face. No reliable way to kill them + 3 Blasts or 3d6 shots at everything = sadface daemons.
 

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Hmm... well I play both Necrons and Daemons, so I think i can help (Necrons for a bit longer).

1st: Have as many "Necron" special ability units as possible, since Pariahs will be chewed up (with an initiative of 3, everything from bloodletters to bloodthirster will be getting first dibbs, and with no invul save the Hellblades will eat Pariahs up). Flayed Ones I have never played, but hey, you will be facing a 95% melee army so lets be real. Immortals will be good to blast things up, but be wary since they are practically Warriors with a bigger gun.

2nd: As was mentioned earlier, run lots of Destroyers. They will tear apart Daemons with 3 shots each, and frankly, the bane of daemons (who only have a +5 invul save) are lots of shots, regardless of AP. Hence, shoot like hell.

3rd: Always remember the cardinal rule when playing Daemons: more shots > strong shots. What I mean by this is Heavy Destroyers will be useless, since you will probably target big units with them, and if he runs Fateweaver, his Bloodthirster gets to reroll his save. Thus, you want to line your Warriors up and shoot at everything (with rapid fire and 25 warriors you should be getting off 50 shots; pretty daunting for something that saves on a 5+).

Specific tips: If your friend runs Fateweaver, then shoot at him until he gets scared and runs away (for every wound inflicted, he takes a Ld test i think).

Lastly, the 1 thing you want to avoid are Bloodcrushers, esp if he has say 8 of them.
 

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Most things have only a 5+ inv save, but Tzeentch stuff has a 4+, and a Lord of Change has a 3+. If they go Tzeentch heavy that might make the "lots of shots" strategy slightly more time consuming, but it would probably still be the best approach. Besides, Tzeentch units have trouble with MEQ units such as Necrons anyway.

Correct, he does take a Ld test for each wound suffered. Of course, he has a 3+ inv save that he can reroll.

So SalamanderMelt, since you play both, can you settle the monolith dispute? :)
 

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Basically, just use necron tactic numero uno (the one that you can use against everything)

Everyone stands as close to a Rez orb and/or monolith, and just shoot everything at the nearest thing. Destroy him a unit at a time.
 

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3d6 shots at every unit within 12" is nothing to sniff at. Monoliths have a lot of uses that non-Necron players just don't understand. 3 Monoliths is a lot of trouble for Daemons.
Depends on the values played obviously but 3 Monoliths is better thing to face playing Daemons than Destroyers. If your Daemons are within 12" of 3 Monoliths it's because you're terrible or you assaulting something. If you're assaulting Necrons you will probably be wiping them out. 1 Monolith is 4 Destroyers which is pretty much better. You should obviously have at least 1 Monolith though, maybe 2 or 3 depending on the value played.

I'm not really a Soul Grinder user so the shooting power of Monoliths is not really an issue, what is as issue is the phasing from combat and assault blocking with their big fat asses.

Aramoro
 

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So SalamanderMelt, since you play both, can you settle the monolith dispute? :)
O.K., so the issue with the monoliths is apparent: what do you do with 1 (or 2 or 3) lumbering vehicles of destruction?

Necron point of view: Disregarding the fact that 3 monoliths is lots of staying up until 2 o'clock swearing that you will never buy a giant foot-high pyramid of plastic, monoliths pretty much kill. I mean, 1 can really turn the tide of a game. Now, having 2 of those things is just basically 2 indestructible pyramids, that have pretty good shots each. running 3 monoliths is pointless.

Running 2 monoliths is pointless as well. Actually, its point-full. See, the monolith special rule for WBB doesn't stack, so having 1 central one makes sense for WBB saves and blowing stuff up.

Lastly, I have to note that there is close to nothing in a daemon army than can successfully down a monolith. A bloodthirster can try, but hey, if your monolith is within CC distance of a bloodthirster, then you have bigger things to worry about, as in why you let that happen :nono:

So, imo, 1 monolith is fine, or maaaax 2 if your playing on an abnormally large board and you have a significant amount of warriors not within 18" of it. :eek:k:
 

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@SalamanderMelt:

I don't think you own a Necron codex, you got so many things wrong.

Firstly, you are NOT allowed to quote the point values of individual models; breaches forum rules and copyright laws.
Secondly, you got the points that you did quote wrong as well.

The rest of your argument just falls apart after that.

Only an upgraded Bloodthirster, that costs at least 35pts more than a Monolith, or a Soul Grinder, has a vague chance of killing a Monolith in CC. A Bloodthirster would still need to roll 6s on the AP roll to penetrate, and then there is only a 1/3 chance of getting a kill. Soul Grinders need 5+ to penetrate. Glancing hits can't kill Monoliths at all.
Basically, Monoliths don't have to worry about CC at all VS Daemons.

P.S. I play both Necrons and Daemons.
 

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I'm starting daemons and my friends starting necrons so this is my strategy deep strike first wave which is a wall off plaguebearers to tie up everything in cc then blood letters come in and finish of the remaining repeat and phase out

so if your friend has pb and bloodletters hes probably gonna try something similar just get a monolith to get everything out of cc before the bloodletters arrive
 
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