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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This thread is now going to include all of the lists I use as the games...well...escalate in points. Please feel free to comment as you like, I'll be updating it throughout my involvement with the league.

I'm taking a big leap and playing at a store competitively....albeit in an environment that is hopefully not aggressively competitive. Management of the game has said to keep it geared toward new people playing the game, and has also not to include heavy fliers or AV14 at this point (though that is up to the discretion of those playing). I kind of hate this points level, not gunna lie. I could skip it, but then I skip out on the first month of gaming as it's every second Saturday and points go up every 4 weeks. This is a list I've kinda just tossed together hoping that the games wouldn't be overly competitive...though if I get plastered every match I won't be broken up about it.

Baal Strike Force

Chaplain - JP, MBs

5x man DC - PF, JPs

5x man Tactical squad - MG, RB w. TLHB

5x man Tactical squad - MG, RB w. TLHB

10x man Assault squad - 2x MG, PS,MBs

It's pretty mobile, with anti armour spattered all over the place. The assault squad and DC should hold their own in combat at this points level provided they charge, and the Tactical squads with RBs can keep up and support with all luck. I was thinking of dropping the MBs for PGs in the Tacticals...unsure.

How do you think it will fare?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
This list, she's retired. It was a terrible go at it today (got tabled three times despite it being really close the third game), if anyone reads these lists I post. I'll put something else up when I get back to wanting to think about 40k.

Chances are I'll be dropping the DC for a Fragioso in a Pod, since they just do so much better for me and there's always been a lot of stuff I could template-death T1 for First Blood....like fucking Long Fangs. Fuck Long Fangs. I'll figure out where I'm getting the 25 points to make the switch, some of it will come from me swapping out my HQ for something a little more relevant. Chaplains just aren't Reclusiarch's, I'm thinking now it's either Astorath or nothing leading the DC when I take them.

One more week of 750 (shudders) then we're moving on to 1k.
 

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Ok I've got a few questions. What are considered Heavy flyers? Are the games you are play objective based or something else? Also are super heavy allowed? Taking a knight at 750 can be devastating. I find in small games you want to put as much points as you can into a death star and smash though your opponent with that. To me it looks like you are applying the list building techniques you would use in a larger game. For example I recently played in an escalation league with my SM and (in addition to some other things) i took a four man Grav-centurion squad with Loth to make them invisible. I won every game because no one had enough fire power to deal with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I could take wild lists, but this league is meant to be friendly and welcoming to new players (as I stated in the OP) and not a curb stomp with Knights/whatever other obviously competitive options are out there. Were I to be playing more competitively I would be using all Drop Pods and likely playing Unbound.

So far from what I can tell there's Tau, Necrons, SM (IF, IH, BA, SW), and Orks in the league and we play either the standard missions or the ones with Tactical Objectives as per whatever the players agree on pre-game. I'm contemplating ripping three Pods in the next round of fighting (still at 750), two with Tactical marines and one with a Furioso. Mad toss ups between a Libbynaught as a HQ (which will get picked off quick if I don't get first turn with everything else in Reserve) and a Libby stuck in with a Tactical squad. Either way, I need to get in closer faster. Long Fangs made me a fool in two games, being able to drop a Fragioso in next to them and template doom upon their heads would go a long way to evening things up. Even the list that I had was doing pretty decent in the second two games I played until some dice fuckery came upon me. It was actually so bad at times that my opponents were surprised that I wasn't getting down on myself. A day spent playing and losing is better than a day spent making lists, I kept responding. I've also considered doing Drop Pods with a Callidus Assassin sneaking in to cause a ruckus, but haven't totaled up the points yet.

I'll not be playing lists that make this game any more broken than it already is. I've had Invisible Hammernators (among other things) run around and destroy armies, and neither me nor my opponent has ever taken any joy in games like that.
 

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Im not trying to push highly competitive list on you but when you said in the OP "I'm taking a big leap and playing at a store competitively" I assumed you meant that you where playing in a competitive environment. But i get that power builds aren't for everyone.

On to your ideas personally I don't like dreadnoughts at all. They die really easily and aren't very effective especially in CC. The Callidus is nice to combat Psychic death stars but if none of your opponents are fielding them then they usually don't make their points back. Spamming drop pods tac squads is always solid in objective games but it can be hard to do right with so little points.

How about this:

HQ
Sanguinary Priest - Jump pack

Elites
Sanguinary Guard x10 - 2 fists, 2 Axes, 8 Swords, Chapter Banner

Troop:
Tac Squad
Tac Squad

Heavy Support:
Vidicator - Battle of Keylek (ignores cover)

745

The Sanguinary Priest goes with the Sanguinary guard. The tac squads grab objectives and the Vidicator blows up anything within 24". Hopefully this isnt too competive
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
but when you said in the OP "I'm taking a big leap and playing at a store competitively" I assumed you meant that you where playing in a competitive environment
I'm taking a big leap and playing at a store competitively....albeit in an environment that is hopefully not aggressively competitive. Management of the game has said to keep it geared toward new people playing the game
It just writes itself, I swear.

The Callidus is nice to combat Psychic death stars but if none of your opponents are fielding them then they usually don't make their points back.
You're thinking of Culexus. A Callidus only stops being useful when she dies.

Spamming drop pods tac squads is always solid in objective games but it can be hard to do right with so little points.
Two of something is spamming? I'm considering running two Tacs in Pods and having the third empty just so two come in T1, basically the empty one is just something to toss down for Linebreaker.

I habitually play two Fragiosos and have had them get back their points (at least) in every game. Keep them shooting their template weapons instead of being stuck in CC and you're gold....but what the hell are you charging that can mess up AV13 anyway?! Stop charging that with your Dreadnought! If you stick to infantry or tanks I don't see why you're getting ran in CC so bad. I only charge things when I'm either hoping to be stuck in combat next turn or know that the enemy unit can't damage AV13 and can ruin them in a Sweeping Advance when they cry 'our weapons are useless' and run. The Libbynaught is a different story, I'm going to try and work on it as an HQ but maybe not after the showing I had first round. I kinda want to come back a bit stronger, but at the same time might even just take the same list and dog it out. Third game I played the other guy only had three models left, I was starting to turn around my luck.

I like your list but don't own Sanguinary Guard or a Vindicator, which makes it hard for me to play without littering the field with proxies (which is lame). The SG are on my list, but so is a lot of other stuff.
 

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I love long fangs. How were they kitted out? The classic 5 ML or my newer go to, multiple 3-man with 2 lascannons?
 

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Originally Posted by Nipolian
but when you said in the OP "I'm taking a big leap and playing at a store competitively" I assumed you meant that you where playing in a competitive environment
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntaw
I'm taking a big leap and playing at a store competitively....albeit in an environment that is hopefully not aggressively competitive. Management of the game has said to keep it geared toward new people playing the game
It just writes itself, I swear.
Ok I had read that you where playing competitively with newer players in a league meant to introduce players to competitive play. But please lets move past this. I'm sorry if i offended you.:victory:

The Callidus is nice to combat Psychic death stars but if none of your opponents are fielding them then they usually don't make their points back.
You're thinking of Culexus. A Callidus only stops being useful when she dies.
Yeah ... get those confused a lot. I can see a Callidus dying fast in such a small point game.

Two of something is spamming? I'm considering running two Tacs in Pods and having the third empty just so two come in T1, basically the empty one is just something to toss down for Linebreaker.
I wasn't saying you where spamming them only offering that as a piece of advice seeing as how you where talking about taking drop pods (although in a 750pt game I could see the argument being made for 3 drop pods being spam). Taking two is an interesting and an empty one is not horrible but takes up quite a bit of points for little return offensively.

I habitually play two Fragiosos and have had them get back their points (at least) in every game. Keep them shooting their template weapons instead of being stuck in CC and you're gold....but what the hell are you charging that can mess up AV13 anyway?! Stop charging that with your Dreadnought! If you stick to infantry or tanks I don't see why you're getting ran in CC so bad. I only charge things when I'm either hoping to be stuck in combat next turn or know that the enemy unit can't damage AV13 and can ruin them in a Sweeping Advance when they cry 'our weapons are useless' and run. The Libbynaught is a different story, I'm going to try and work on it as an HQ but maybe not after the showing I had first round. I kinda want to come back a bit stronger, but at the same time might even just take the same list and dog it out. Third game I played the other guy only had three models left, I was starting to turn around my luck.
Ok if they work for you great. In my meta they would be dead fast. My problem is not entirely that they get killed in close combat (although that is a problem with all the MC running around in 7th as well as anything with a fist or hammer) but that they don't kill enough and get tar pitted. In my opinion the "Libbynaught" is just terrible. For two main reasons b/c it cant join a unit it will be picked off fast (especially if he is your warlord) and a librarian is an amazing force multiplier not having him in a unit strips him of some of that making him worse that a regular Libby for more points.

I like your list but don't own Sanguinary Guard or a Vindicator, which makes it hard for me to play without littering the field with proxies (which is lame). The SG are on my list, but so is a lot of other stuff.
Yes proxies are lame. What do you have?
 

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Hmm.....I remember two PCs, two MLs, and a LC.
In a single squad? Blasphemy! But it sounds like it worked that time. I've also run the 3-man with two plas. I will spam cheap effective units in a heartbeat and SW can do that all day!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
He was Split Firing the LC at my tanks and getting a ton of wounds on infantry with the PC and ML shots. I also prefer to play the same weapons in Devastators, but it was pretty effective at lower points. The AP2 was forcing FnP or removing models, and the Krak shots were negating everything (I completely forgot they were AP3 at the time).

I think I'm jist going to bring the same list again, but maybe run a ML2 Libby w. JP alongside my Assault marines since they have been dying miserably. Heck, maybe I'll even try for a Priest to get that WS and FnP bonus. Either way Divination is a fun time when you get the Invulnerable save power, a Priest always benefits the unit, and DC aren't getting that much from having a Chaplain attached (despite re-rolls being awesome).

@Nipolian, I don't get hung up on much and you didn't offend me. Just pointing out what was already written instead of writing it again.
 

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I wouldn't mind getting into smaller games like these. It's really not something I've ever done. But with my love of Mech I'd do something dumb like:

Techmarine on Bike
2x MM Attack Bikes

Vindicator w/ Stormbolter and Engines
Vindicator w/ Stormbolter and Engines
Whirlwind

5x Sniper Scouts w/ Camo
5x Tac w/ HF in Las/Plas Razor

Even though I've never fielded a whirlwind in my life, I think it has a place in low point games. But this is just me and my mech loving self. I might would even take a TLAC on the razorback. I've been slicing up some heavy bolters and baal pred assault cannons to make some up lately so I'm excited to use them.
 

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You could always try drop pod spam?

HQ
-Sanguinary Priest - bike, Melta Bombs, Combi Melta

Troop
-Tac Squad x5 - meltagun, Combi-melta, Drop Pod
-Tac Squad x5 - meltagun, Combi-melta, Drop Pod
-Tac Squad x5 - meltagun, Combi-melta, Drop Pod
-Tac Squad x5 - meltagun, Combi-melta, Drop Pod

Fast Attack
-Bike Squad x5 - 2x grav-guns, Combi-melta, Melta Bombs

Its a lot of Drop Pods to kill at 750pts so that's good but not the most offensive list.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
:laugh: I love when people guess what's in my collection when suggesting lists. Don't get me wrong, you guys are coming up with great ideas here and I appreciate the thought you are putting into it, I just always find it amusing when people comment back with total re-writes.

@christopher.dean, my love of mech runs deep. Were I to get as AV as I can at 750, I might try out:

Libbynaught - HF

Fragioso - DP

5 man Tactical squads - MG, RB w. TLHB

5 man Tactical squads - MG, RB w. TLHB

Baal Predator - TLAC, HBs

Tanks would cover the Libbynaught on the advance in support of the Fragioso. I actually kind of like this list....

@Nipolian, Bikes are a great accompaniment to Drop Pods. They're that crucial T5, and move nice and fast out cover and into the attack. I'm currently building a small Allied Detachment of White Scars (the Captain was in the Conversion Deathmatch last month) and fully intend on running them with my Pods in a similar manner to what you're suggesting here. Have you noticed in our *cough* lovely new 'dex that a 5 man Assault squad with two meltas and a combi are actually 10 points less than the Tactical squads you suggested here? It doesn't change how your list works, the 20 points saved moving two Tacs to Assault means nothing at 750, but it's a pretty god damned cheap melta alpha-strike if you're up against some armour. This is the Pod list I was thinking of with a Callidus attached (since what doesn't die fast at 750 when you have to play close):

Libby

Fragioso - DP

10x man Tactical squad - MG, HF, DP

9x man Tactical squad - MG, DP

Callidus Assassin

Barring the worst dice luck the Callidus is going to kill at least one unit, I've been known to infiltrate her right next to a unit close to the enemy board edge and gut the fire support of many lists. This list does indeed wish Assault squads were still Troops though, that's for sure. I could drop the 10x man Tactical squad for a sniper Scout squad and a 5 man Assault squad with two meltas, might actually work out better for me. Snipers are very Objective oriented though, and in Purge the Alien or a Tactical Objective mission they're not quite as useful.

This thread has a lot more meat for lists in it. I've yet to update it with some lists I've been playing since having the BA 'dex for a while now. My 1850 point list has wrecked some face at the local GW, can't wait for the Escalation League to get there. I'll post it up soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Turns out the points level is going up every two weeks! Now we are doing (the strangely awkward number of) 900 point games. Not too sure what I'm going to take just yet, but I think I want to step up my Troops to 10 man squads. If they go in Rhinos then maybe a Baal Predator to accompany them would be suitable. Elites I'm definitely running a Fragioso, and I'm torn between HQs. It's either a Priest w. LC and JP or a ML2 Libby w. JP, the Chaplain/DC might just be shelved until I get an Astorath model and can run him with 10 Jump DC like I want (I also only own 5 Jump DC). Without looking at the points or wargear just yet, I'm thinking something like:

Libby/Priest - JP

Fragioso - DP

10x man Tactical - Rhino

10x man Tactical - Rhino

Baal - TLAC, HBs

10x man Assault

EDIT: So that was wishful thinking at 900 points. If I stick with the smaller squads in Razorbacks I can do:

Priest - LC, JP

Furioso - FC, HF, DP

5x man Tactical squad - MG, RB w. TLHB

5x man Tactical squad - MG, RB w. TLHB

Baal Predator - TLAC, HB

10x man Assault squad - 2x MG, PS

Which sits at 885 points. To make an even 900 I could swap out the Priest for a ML2 Libby with a JP, but I'm not convinced that he's a better contribution to the squad than the Priest is (and at less points).
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Whew! So Round 2 is done (for me anyway, since I can't do weekday games), and I came out 4 wins to 1 loss this time, bringing my overall record to 4-4. I ain't in first, but I'll be damned if I'm in last anymore! At this point I'm pausing writing this to get a beer in celebration. Cheers! :drinks:

I played the Librarian in the first game against Space Wolves and won in Crusade through a complete annihilation, though had his squad survived I would still have held 2 of three objectives with Linebreaker and First Blood to boot. He played a pretty zany list, had a 5 man Vanguard squad all with dual plasma pistols. The were wrecking a unit per turn in shooting, and he was just killing his Gets Hot rolls/saves. The two points in the game where it really swung in my favour was when my assault squad deep struck and scattered very far away from their Vindicator target, but stayed a 16th of an inch range of the rear armour, popping it before it could do anything at all T2. The other was when his Dreadnought (some siege variant, had a hand drill and flamer that could hit people in transports depending on CC conditions) charged 5 Tactical marines, killing two then taking THREE GLANCES from grenades from the remaining dudes and getting wrecked. His Long Fangs were also neutralized quickly thanks to the Rending action on the Furioso....all in all, I was pretty stoked.

I switched to a Priest as HQ and MBs on all squad sergeants (just in case there was more of those Dreadnoughts kicking around) and in my second game faced Space Marines using the Iron Hands tactics in the Emperor's Will mission. He dropped Sternguard and combi-melta'd my assault squad vaping a few guys easily. Glorious deployment saved my Baal. Fragioso dominated some Sternguard, Assault marines and the Baal took care of the rest while my two Tactical squads began the long flank around the board to his Objective. I tied up so much of his attention with my Dreadnought, Baal, and Assault squad that my Tactical marines (and later the Baal) basically made a massive bubble of 'you can't put a model within 1" of me' around his objective because Objective Secured is a son of a bitch on whatever the Scout Landpeeder is called. Saved me the game, because the one damn Scout left that was in CC with my Furioso had ObSec that kept it 3-3 for Objectives. Thankfully, I had Linebreaker and First Blood over both of our Warlord points.

At this point, I would like to stress how important it is in Emperor's Will for you to put your Objective outside of your deployment zone (while still on your half, obvs). First Blood is a finicky mistress, and even though he had one tactical marine and one scout left (muahahahahahaa) it could have gone very differently. Why give them a 4 point objective grab?

My next game was pretty brutal. I faced some nonsense Chaos list with a FW flier that could shoot ~3 targets per turn, two FW artillery pieces, a fully stacked Noisemarines unit, and the obligatory Cultists to be Battle Forged. The only reason that I won was because my army is hella fast and I got a bunch of Tactical Objectives achieved while he got shit all done....cuz when the game ended at T5 I only had one Drop Pod with 2 HP left :laugh:

Lesson learned, as the point limit increases I'll be adding in a Stormraven (or two, we're allowed to bring a couple different lists in the interest of not being steamrolled by the limitations of people's model collection....some people apparently only buy ridiculous armies) to deal with fliers. There's another guy playing Unbound with FOUR Stormtalons, a Stormraven, and a squad of Hammernators. He's already been asked once to make a non-flier list for a game because his opponent literally would have just ran around dying. Had I gone up against him I would have had to maguiver a list with the Stormraven and ADL that I had in my case...lame-o.]

This brings us to the game I lost miserably....even more miserably than if the previous game had gone on and my Pod been blown out of existence. New Chaos army, this guy played 10 Raptors with 2x Meltas and his tricked out Tzeentch Lord so he could take Noisemarines as Troops. He 'dropped the bass' so to speak. Poor placement let at deployment let him murderate both my Razorbacks T1 with blasts, and he continued to brutalize me further with every passing turn. At least I killed one unit of Noisemarines and half his Raptors....right? Pay attention to your deployment! Jeeze....

The last game I played was a rematch against the Ork player from round one. He had two Battlewagons with rocket launchers each with 20 boyz, and a decently tricked out (if small) Warboss and Nobz on bikes. Klaws all over da place. I focused hard on those bikes, who dummied me in the first match at 750. I fucked them up pretty hard, losing combat when they charged my Assault squad/Priest combo and falling back before it was my turn to walk up and Jump charge them....but not before opening up on them and halving their number with pretty much all my army's shooting. Fucking Jink. Getting the warlord trait that grants a master-crafted weapon was great for my Priest, who was racking up the kills in CC for the rest of the game with a 20 Ork mob. FnP and +1 WS for life, Libbys might be out for me...I'm vexed that I can only get 4 ML points out of a single Detachment now. Not enough against the dedicated psychic forces out there, may as well just ignore it if I'm never to get a useful power off. He took down just over half of my army, but I took his last model in T6 and won 9-0 with points. I would say that I had my revenge, plus the dude was a blast to play against with Orks and Blood Angels just being made to fight each other. Win and loss, these Ork matches have been my favourite.

Now for the kicker....damn League is only going up 100/150 points each round. So: 1000, 1100, 1250, 1400, 1500. At that point, it will keep escalating until 2500 but everyone will be required to continue bringing 1500 point lists as well for those whose collections can't keep up. There's also other awards and bounties put on players on winning streaks so there's lots of ways for those people with smaller armies to keep having fun while those of use with the models can really escalate the way this should happen. To take this list to 1000, I was thinking of just making the two Tactical squads 10 man in Rhinos. Points don't allow for heavy weapons in the squad, so just Meltas and Bombs it remains. I'm still rolling around ideas though, I've got a week to figure it out.

Baal Strike Force

Priest - Lightning Claw, Jump Pack

Furioso - Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod

10x man Tactical squad - Melta Gun, Melta Bombs, Rhino

10x man Tactical squad - Melta Gun, Melta Bombs, Rhino

10x man Assault squad - 2x Melta Guns, Melta Bombs, Power Sword

Baal Predator - Twin Linked Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons

1000 even.

I'll have to make up a second list that includes a Stormraven just so the games against the flier dudes aren't ridiculous...but so far I'm ok with 30 fast marines with anti-armour capabilities and two infantry-shredding AV13 vehicles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
^ That list went 2-1 today against Tyranids (the Relic, 5-2 win), Chaos (Scouring, 6-4 win), and Space Wolves (Crusade, 5-4 loss). Very pleased with it, I think I'll make a point of (finishing) painting the contents of this list.
 
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