[syypher]

Could any experience BA player or anyone who knows about this tactic (RB/5RAS) to explain the reasoning behind this kind of play? I understand they have protection now instead of Jump packing around cover and they can move 18" instead now...but here are the questions I have about these sort of Mech lists:

*Sorry that there are so many questions, it's just I really think these lists look cool and would like to know more about them before I invest in buying all these RB's.*

1) Is there a reason to only field 5x RAS (regular assault squad) in the RB's? Why don't they go in 10s so you can have 2 Meltas or something per RB?

2) Some lists do a SGT with Power Fist in each RB and others go Melta and others do Flamers. What's the best way to equip these 5 man RAS units?

3) Why upgrade the RB's with TL-something? @ 11 armor sides and front theyll pretty much get shot down really fast then

4) With all these small squads how do you use them efficiently...Do you move all your RBs to the same location and swarm people with the RAS guys in 2-3 RBs? If you spread out your guys will only be attacking in groups of 5...

5) Why do most of these lists not have any Sang Priests? I've played with 10 man RAS units + Sang Priests and Sang Priests seem to give so much more to RAS units strengths.

6) Those experience with fighting or playing with this list what is the best heavy support/ fire support for them? Devastators? I have 1 Baal Pred right now and 1 Reg Pred. I'm thinking of convering the Reg Pred to a Baal and using 2x Baal Preds with TLAC + HB sponsoons.

7) Are RAS units + your support fire (Baals/Devs) enough? Almost none of these lists have any Elites anywhere. Some run 1 Dreadnaught or so but why nothing else? Terminators in LR, DC in RBs?

8) Last question I think... How do these lists cover objectives with no truely great range in the small 5 man RAS units. Swap in some Sniper Scouts or what?


Whoever helps me out thank you so much for your time. I know it's a lot of questions! >_<

 

[Katie Drake]

1) Is there a reason to only field 5x RAS (regular assault squad) in the RB's? Why don't they go in 10s so you can have 2 Meltas or something per RB?

Because Razorbacks only have a transport capacity of 6 models. That means you can fit 5 Assault Marines and a character of some kind inside at most.

2) Some lists do a SGT with Power Fist in each RB and others go Melta and others do Flamers. What's the best way to equip these 5 man RAS units?

Different people have different ideas. Personally I prefer a Sergeant with a power weapon and one model with a meltagun. Others might prefer power fists or flamers or what have you.

3) Why upgrade the RB's with TL-something? @ 11 armor sides and front theyll pretty much get shot down really fast then

Sure, but if you're fielding 4-6 of them it's going to be nigh impossible for your opponent to take them all down before they do their damage. Also, since BA Razorbacks are fast, it's possible to move 12" and still fire a weapon which is a great advantage as you can get into range with shorter ranged weapons or maneuver into position for side armor shots.

4) With all these small squads how do you use them efficiently...Do you move all your RBs to the same location and swarm people with the RAS guys in 2-3 RBs? If you spread out your guys will only be attacking in groups of 5...

It's generally advisable to focus your units anyway, so yeah you want to gang up on enemy units with a bunch of yours where possible.

5) Why do most of these lists not have any Sang Priests? I've played with 10 man RAS units + Sang Priests and Sang Priests seem to give so much more to RAS units strengths.

Because it'd cost a fortune to give each unit a Priest and since you'll be spending most of your time driving around inside a Razorback you won't be getting shot at all that often, meaning you won't need FNP.

6) Those experience with fighting or playing with this list what is the best heavy support/ fire support for them? Devastators? I have 1 Baal Pred right now and 1 Reg Pred. I'm thinking of convering the Reg Pred to a Baal and using 2x Baal Preds with TLAC + HB sponsoons.

Rifleman Dreadnoughts (Dreads with two twin-linked autocannons). Normal Predators have a difficult time drawing line of sight to enemies past/over all the other friendly vehicles on the table. Baal Predators can do fine since they'll typically be very close to the enemy.

7) Are RAS units + your support fire (Baals/Devs) enough? Almost none of these lists have any Elites anywhere. Some run 1 Dreadnaught or so but why nothing else? Terminators in LR, DC in RBs?

Yes, they're enough. We're talking 30 Marines in 6 different vehicles driving around and shooting the enemy up, or charging them with nasty weapons as the situation dictates. Also, six squads of Assault Marines tend to cost a lot of points so you won't usually be able to afford Terminators. Also, Death Company suck, so don't take them.

8) Last question I think... How do these lists cover objectives with no truely great range in the small 5 man RAS units. Swap in some Sniper Scouts or what?

Six scoring units is more than enough in most cases.

 

[syypher]

Wow! Thanks for your help! That helps a TON.

Anyone have any other advice or tips on this type of mech BA tactic? Generally is it competitive or for more casual players? I normally play vs Chaos/Orcs/Tyranids/Dark Eldar.

Also, why do most RB's choose the Assault Cannon of TL LasCannons...?

 

[Jack Mac]

Play around with the combat calculator. You may be surprised, I certainly was.
(Assuming the asscannon was TL, which I'm not sure of, the assault cannon beats or equals the lascannon versus every armour value. Provided you get your rending bonus, that is; they're kind of useless versus monoliths or wave serpents.)

 

[Katie Drake]

Anyone have any other advice or tips on this type of mech BA tactic? Generally is it competitive or for more casual players? I normally play vs Chaos/Orcs/Tyranids/Dark Eldar.

This is a competitive build, there's no doubt about it. Most casual lists don't consist of so many duplicate identical units. You need to realize that we're talking between 4-6 units identical in every way.

Against the armies listed, a Blood Angel Razorspam list should do fine as long as they're played intelligently and supported properly.

Also, why do most RB's choose the Assault Cannon of TL LasCannons...?

People choose assault cannons because assault cannons help make up for one of the main weaknesses of the BA Razorspam build - numbers. We're talking approximately 30-40 Marines at 2,000 points which really isn't very many at all. Assault cannons excel at thinning out enemy units which allows our smaller squads to charge into combat and have a far better chance of coming out on top instead of being buried by sheer numbers. Also, as explained above the assault cannon tends to be superior against the vast majority of armored targets. Lastly, since Blood Angel Razorbacks are Fast vehicles the short range of the assault cannon becomes less a problem than it otherwise would be.

 

[Dallas_Drake]

Katie pretty much summed it all up, in summary though I'd just like to add that Assault Cannons are great at doing so much, they wipe T3-4 troops off the table, they can seriously wound MCs & they can even pen armour, whilst they might statistically work as well or better than Lascannons (done the maths and they're 'better' than lascannons) it's important to note that they key to this army build is using that fast 12'' move each turn, not only does it get you far more likely to hit side armour but it also makes you harder to hit.

At 2000 points 'fairly competitive' I now run;
Seth
Librarian
6 RAS in Assault Cannon Razoorbacks
2 Baals with Assault Cannons & Heavy Bolters
3 MM Attack Bikes
2 Riffleman Dreads (dual TL-Autocannons)
1 Vindicator

Stelek has written an article that I believe is on this site somewhere covering this topic, it's worth a read (whilst I don't agree with HK-missiles in it he is pretty much spot on).

Dallas

Edit: Found the article; http://www.heresy-online.net/tactics/blood-angels-razorback-spam/

 

[syypher]

Thanks for your help guys. Makes me feel much better going this route knowing it's actually used and competitive.

@Dallas: Thanks for the article link as well

 

[Tim/Steve]

assault cannons can basically deal with anything effectively, from lowly guardsmen right up to heavy tanks although at both ends of the scale you lose a little effectiveness. Then again you dont really need to care that much, since all the assault units inside can deal with guardsmen or equivalent units without much difficulty and if each of them contains a meltagun then any heavy tanks (eg land raiders) on the board will be getting fried.

The main bonus of this sort of list is survivability. To destroy your troops the neemy will need to destroy 6 vehicles and then take out 30 marines, which is not an easy combo to do (I used to use 3 rhinos in 1500pts and rarely lost more then 1-2), especially when you back them up with more armour all over the field. I'm not really that familiar with the exact options for BA but (if possible) then taking out Dallas_Drake's MM attack bikes and replacing them with land speeders with MM would make it even nastier, confronting the enemy with 14 vehicles and zero infantry means that for large portions of the game a lot of his guns will be pretty ineffectual... while those armies with good anti-tank capabilities tend to not have a massive number of them (eg Tau might only have 1 unit of broadsides and a couple hammerheads for main anti-tank, plus some battlesuits later on.... by which time you'll easily be in their lines).
I used to run mech-wolves with about 9-10 vehicles (3 rhino, 1 razorback, 1 ven dread, 1 dread, 1 LS storm -4th ed SW- a vindi, a LS tornado and a drop pod for a dread) and nothing outside of transports and even then I dont think I ever really had a problem of not reaching the enemy before anti-tank started to be a problem... with this list you'll get there far quicker and have far more vehicles to split the enemy firepower.

 

[syypher]

Wow everyone thank you so much for your help. I just tested the new list with a BA RB with TLAC...all I have to say is THANKS! Loving it!

 

[MJayC50]

isnt it fun?

Ass cannons on a fast vehicle is brutal

 

[Dallas_Drake]

isnt it fun?

Ass cannons on a fast vehicle is brutal

Damn straight :biggrin: