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Discussion Starter #1
I know it's been mentioned in the main lurker thread but I believe it warrants further discussion.

I know the argument had been made that they don't impact membership but from personal experience, things I have talked over with other members and other experiences beg to differ.

I think of awards as motivational items or achievements. I have 10 for various things I have done, competitions I won and various other items. Everytime I have received one out made me feel as if my time here was well spent. I fully understand that not everyone cares, but even if 1 percent does that is still a goodly amount.

An example of this working is video games. Both playstation and Xbox have an achievement or gamer score system. This creates 3 types of users :people who don't care, people who try harder in a game you own, and people who learn a new fucking language and import games from other countries and will buy/rent any game they can to get the highest gamer score possible. This is a prime example of awards and achievements working. Think of Heresy as that video game where some users will do what they can to get all our as many achievements as they can (not the best parallel I know).

"But Larry this is a forum not a video game, I don't see how that translates "

Glad you asked pseudo me. I have an example of the awards system working on this very forum. Some of you might remember the Dark Disciple award. You had to post 500 times or start 15 topics. Neither of these feats a user not named djinn24 will normally pull off in a given month except mods who tend to start topics because that's kinda what they do to keep us all informed. Now if awards did not work there would only be about 5 of us with the award, but there are quite a few people who have it, and from what I remember most earned it by the 500 post requirement which to me seemed the most difficult. Now I am not saying the can of spam award was perfect but a lot of people where encouraged by it. Yes I do remember the were other incentives as well.

Now this shows how awards do work and encourage people and in general (to me at least) makes you feel appreciated and this leads me into multiple awards.

I think a person should be able to earn multiple awarding of the same award. Yes I know for some of would be difficult but for others it only makes sense. From personal experience I don't really enter painting competitions on the site because I have the award (not 100 percent true, just the job gets in the way) but I might be motivated more of I could add a device (star, oak leaf, bronze penis, it is a slaanesh award) to it. But everyone is an egotistical bastards like me but there are others who this would encourage to do more to try to earn pixel shineys.

Now I could do a write up on each award and how even encouraging a small number of us affects the entire forum which is a ton of boring typing but I will offer one.

The tutorial award. Quite a few people have mentioned being brought here because of Google pulling up a tutorial hosted here. Now using the one egotistical bastard I know for fact that would be motivated by this, djinn24, I will show how it affects the forum, it's users, and more importantly, to him at least djinn24. Note: these numbers are made up as they are not the actual criteria. So now djinn24 has posted 20 articles and received his award. Woo-hoo. The forum benefits because that is 20 more solid Google search results, which brings members, the users of the forum now have more nuggets of information to use and possibly new people to talk with, and lastly djinn got his shiney and can feel better. Without an additional award djinn may just stop posting tutorials or may slow down which doesn't do anyone any good. But let's say at 40 tutorials he can get a shiney star on his shiney award. MOTIVATION, must get shiney. So now he does an additional 20 which doubles the Google hits, users joining, useful nuggets of info.

Now let's say there are only 5 people like this on the forum. Seems like a small number. But if each go for the 5th hypothetical issuance of the award at say 100 quality tutorials that equals 500 quality tutorials at the cost of time to add a star of border to an award. Now that argument could be applied to several awards, others not so much. But this does you don't have to have a forum full of pixilated shiney addicts to benefit a lot.
 

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Heresy Online's Pet Furby
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Excellent post there, Djinn :so_happy:
 

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I agree. You have explained perfectly what I could not. Even if people generally DO NOT care, there are some that might care. This 1% people would be inspired by the goal to post useful things like tutorials, good threads and participate to competitions.
We don't need to add any new trophy. We just need to "advertise" their existence and to tell "Hey, this mont we are awarding the Bronze Penis (I want that) to the best troll. Go and troll!" Some people would then love and dedicate to do stuff on the forum to reach the bronze penis.
We could begin with awarding the Dark Disciple award to the great posters of heresy, or something else...
Oh please, make the Bronze Penis award....really...
 

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I, for one, will state for the record that the awards system has caused me to branch out, dabble in far more areas than I would have otherwise, and I've enjoyed more than a few of those areas. When I first came to Heresy, my home bookmark was in the Original Works forum, and I scarcely poked my nose out of it. Now (somewhat to my chagrin), I rarely poke my nose into it--and really, one of the primary impetuses for me to have started looking elsewhere and dabbling in the physical miniature side of things was scrolling through the awards after having been awarded one or two and thinking, "hmmm, this one looks relatively easy to earn--and also sort of fun..."
 

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I agree with your post Djinn. Smaller awards such as these are a very well documented method of motivating people, it's one reason why real medals are used, as well things like brain-washing focussed awards of a couple more cigarettes or an extra slop of gruel in Korean POW camps (ref - "Influence" by Robert Cialdini).

I say bring on the brain-washing, let's have similar enticements for people to attribute extraordinary value to as they make Heresy a more lively and helpful wargaming community hub.
 

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http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=30737

I agree with this idea Djinn, the fact I could win an award made me put a lot more effort into the area of my choice, in this case the Original Works. And now I'm working on the RP and Battle Report equivalents and putting a lot of effort in in an attempt to get them.
 

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Whilst earning other awards is nice, the only one I have ever had actual designs on earning is the Baton of the Grand Marshal.
And after nearly four years on the forum and two (maybe three?) failed attempts at the Army Challenge I can honestly say that earning that award is still "up there" on my hobby list :laugh:
 

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Well said Djinn. I agree the awards do add a certain motivation to participate on the boards. When I got my first one (the Dark Disciple) it definitely spurred me on, and the Baton of the Grand Marshal certainly inspired me to get on with painting an army I spent years procrastinating over. Being involved for the third year in a row has seen me get more painted in that time than in the 10 years previous to that.

The Dark Disciple did lead to a certain amount of spamming, because all you had to do was hit a set limit of posts or threads. However, if it was brought back but the awarding of it also depended on the quality of the content of said posts or threads, I'm sure it might help maintain our current upward trend in posting. As it is there is no spamming or poor content showing up despite the upsurge, so maybe it could be a way to reward those striving to revive the boards.

Besides, some members are currently and have been for a while meeting the criteria that was laid down for the Dark Disciple without resorting to bullshitting just to hit the given post count.
 

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i like the awards, like djinn said, they're something to strive for. i'm still trying to get my hands on the mark of nurgle one. I've been here years now but i guess i haven't hit the magic post count needed (1k?) :giggle:

the painting awards are something i should probably look into aswell.

but yes, as i suggested in the lurker thread, an award for the best noob contributions might help convert lurkers into posters IMO
 

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Slave to Heresy!
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Ok, I feel I need to step in here and present the main problem with the site.


The newer members aren't joining.



How does giving a handful of people a few duplicate awards solve the main problem? You think the unregistered members check out your awards and think "fuck me, this guy has more silverware than Tiger Woods, I better get posting".

If you're saying you're not interested in posting new tutorials unless you get snazzy new medals (blackmail) that says a lot about you as a person. Prestige is earned by action - posting good quality stuff will in time formulate a reputation.

I tried bribing people with $1-5 per tutorial. Although it didn't work. I will still pay people $1-5 for an article.

I'm not adding any more awards or allowing duplicates, they create elitism, drain staff resources and ultimately frighten the noobs into not posting. Also, adding awards specifically for noobs isn't going to make them want to join - they don't want an identity or an avatar. Why would they give two fucks about an award?

Awards are for retention pure and simple - and when the longer term members try to blackmail me for more I get a little pissed off if I'm honest.

I can't yield to every narcissistic whim.

The problem of incorporating new members into the posting fraternity isn't solved by making the current posting fraternity more intimidating.
 

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Heresy Online's Pet Furby
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New awards isn't really the answer.

A noob can earn any of the awards a veteran can with the right quality of work. What is really needed right now is a way to engage new members and also what I think of as "fringe members" in conversation and convince them to become active and constructive participants in our community.
In the same vein, we need to find a way to entice lurkers out of the shadows to (at least) become fringe posters if not active members.
 

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I know the argument had been made that they don't impact membership but from personal experience, things I have talked over with other members and other experiences beg to differ.
I think your right, the awards do tend to impact the lurker and member-base. When you see someone with a ton of posts or awards, its rather intimidating and someone who is newer might be less inclined to post.

I think of awards as motivational items or achievements. I have 10 for various things I have done, competitions I won and various other items. Everytime I have received one out made me feel as if my time here was well spent. I fully understand that not everyone cares, but even if 1 percent does that is still a goodly amount.

Think of Heresy as that video game where some users will do what they can to get all our as many achievements as they can (not the best parallel I know).
Unless I've missed something, what you seem to be describing is achievment whoring. Is your argument here to turn the award system into something like that?

Some of you might remember the Dark Disciple award.

but there are quite a few people who have it, and from what I remember most earned it by the 500 post requirement which to me seemed the most difficult.
Not to knock everyone who earned the award, but you realize a lot of people went after the five hundred posts because its easier to spam posts than threads. (Kinda why it ultimately was halted.)

Now this shows how awards do work and encourage people and in general (to me at least) makes you feel appreciated and this leads me into multiple awards.
With the above in mind, it shows how some awards or ideas only work in theory rather than practicality.

I think a person should be able to earn multiple awarding of the same award. Yes I know for some of would be difficult but for others it only makes sense.
So is this more to help other members, or to pad your own award count?

From personal experience I don't really enter painting competitions on the site because I have the award
So you got the award, and because you can't earn anything beyond congratulations or self gratification you no longer enter competitions? I don't think this is a very good reason to give multiples of the same award. It might actually make for a better argument for increasing the requirement for the award itself, assuming it is to easy to earn.

The tutorial award.
We already have an award for tutorials, the Order of the Astropath. In fact you have the award, its one of the four presently shown under your reputation total.
 

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New awards isn't really the answer.

A noob can earn any of the awards a veteran can with the right quality of work. What is really needed right now is a way to engage new members and also what I think of as "fringe members" in conversation and convince them to become active and constructive participants in our community.
In the same vein, we need to find a way to entice lurkers out of the shadows to (at least) become fringe posters if not active members.
but what? there's only so much that can be said about plastic dudesmen that hasn't been said by someone before. i don't know if the lurkers are intimidated by some of the posters on here as we have a lot more freedom of speech on heresy then some of the other forums so perhaps it's a case they feel they can't post because someone might go off at them for some imagined slight? :dunno:
 

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Heresy Online's Pet Furby
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Painting? Modelling? Conversions?
Battle Reports and Tutorials.

There's always plenty to talk about, and if there is the potential for people to feel nervous about posting then that is an issue for all of us to address. :)
Is it the language used? If we feel that is the case, maybe we shall all reign it in a bit when talking to newer members. Ease them in.
If I was to respond to you in a manner of "Are you fucking serious?" then you'd probably pick up on my sarcasm whereas a new member may not. This is only an off the wall thought, but hey, we're here to bounce ideas off each other :)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
No @Jezlad I was not saying I am not doing tutorials because there is no additional award for it. I used myself as an example simply because i could make fun of myself. It all goes with what I said in the painting award that I cited above. Job , just bought a house and right now all my modeling stuff is packed so I can move it and permanently set it up. Simply I don't have time.

You wanted ideas how to bring people in. These are ideas on how to get people motivated to post more content and be more active which to me is important in a forum when I look to join.

But you said no so that's that. Off to brainstorm some more.
 

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Yeah I understand that and in an ideal world it'd be awesome. In reality we'll get 5 more tutorials in a month and it'll be forgotten.

I ran a tutorial drive once and got over 100 new tutorials. The last one - ZERO. The bribery $5 per tutorial drive - ZERO.

Whats the point in spending the best part of 2 hours adding new award graphics for fuck all return?

I'm done adding shit to "bribe" people.

If people don't want to post for the sites health then fine our days are numbered. This forum (the vets forum) is here to collectively discuss ways to bring new members into the fold because they are the future of the site. I was hoping we'd all be able to look beyond personal prestige and think "this is what needs to be done to turn this ship around" not "give me a big shiny medal and i'll stand at the front while the riffraff paddle"
 

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Painting? Modelling? Conversions?
Battle Reports and Tutorials.

There's always plenty to talk about, and if there is the potential for people to feel nervous about posting then that is an issue for all of us to address. :)
Is it the language used? If we feel that is the case, maybe we shall all reign it in a bit when talking to newer members. Ease them in.
If I was to respond to you in a manner of "Are you fucking serious?" then you'd probably pick up on my sarcasm whereas a new member may not. This is only an off the wall thought, but hey, we're here to bounce ideas off each other :)
tutorials are great and all, but i guess the problem with them is finding people to do them. i've been trying to track down a decent tutorial for sculpting robes so i can finish a jetseer i've have on the backburner for the last few months but i can't find one anywhere so i'm stuck. so it's not just noobs who need the tutes!

are there specific tutorial for painting techniques we're missing that need filling?
 

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Heresy Online's Pet Furby
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tutorials are great and all, but i guess the problem with them is finding people to do them.
That is one of the main problems as Jez has just shown in his post above :(

To be honest, the tutorials area of the forum is not somewhere I am familiar with. I think Cypher would be your best bet in that regard?
 
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