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Bleh
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Ok, well whilst playing a game i cropped up on somthing, i was gonna roll for Ld, and he said what are you doing, so i said i was rolling for Ld of this squad, he said you dont need to, marines auto rally. I didnt think to ask at that time, but what armies do and dont auto rally? And what are the rules for it?
 

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Executive Nitpicker
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'And They Shall Know No Fear'
p74 main book, Universal Special Rules
 

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Grey Knight Converter
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Just remember that they still need to pass all other criteria for rallying so must not have a unit in a vicinity of the unit, etc... People tend to forget that.
 

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'And They Shall Know No Fear'
p74 main book, Universal Special Rules
I guess this shows just how crucial space marines are to GW if they put their special rule in the main rulebook rather than just leaving it for the codex. (I don't think anyone else uses this rule, so it is the antithesis of 'universal')
 

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Bleh
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Discussion Starter #6
Just remember that they still need to pass all other criteria for rallying so must not have a unit in a vicinity of the unit, etc... People tend to forget that.
I didn't know that hehe, thanks for that :biggrin:

I guess this shows just how crucial space marines are to GW if they put their special rule in the main rulebook rather than just leaving it for the codex. (I don't think anyone else uses this rule, so it is the antithesis of 'universal')
I think thats a bit stupid personally, i hope they amend this in the next codex and rulebook.
 

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Inquisitor
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Well considering that ATSKNF applies to Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angles, and Black Templar its applications are a little outside of just Codex: Space Marines. Not to mention it replaces ATSKNF that was in these codexes from 3rd Edition that didnt recieve a re-write till after 4th Edition (or in the case of Space Wolves are still waiting a re-write). The main rule book was an appropriate place for this rule.
 

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Executive Nitpicker
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Just remember that they still need to pass all other criteria for rallying so must not have a unit in a vicinity of the unit, etc... People tend to forget that.
I think the only limitation that applies to ATSKNF is that no enemy units may be within 6"
Marines can still rally under half strength, we can even come back from a botched Last Man Standing check
 

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Inquisitor
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Their old codex is discontinued. It has been for along time. GW just doesnt want to print the super old 3rd Edition ones anymore. That has nothing to do with them writing a new one later this year tho.
 

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Grey Knight Converter
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I think the only limitation that applies to ATSKNF is that no enemy units may be within 6"
Marines can still rally under half strength, we can even come back from a botched Last Man Standing check
True, they can still rally even if they fail a Last Man Standing Check although I think they will still have to test for it again next turn. The not being able to rally with opponents with in 6" can be important if SM fail a moral check in CC but manage to escape. If they run 9 inches of less the opponent can consolidate to within 6 inches denying the Sm the chance to rally.
 

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Executive Nitpicker
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As I understand it LMS vs ATSKNF goes like so

1: Roll the LMS check
Pass: Proceed until next turn, check again next turn.
Fail: Fall back 2d6" go on to step 2.

2: Auto-Rally if no enemy is within 6"
Move (if you want. You can try to make up the lost ground from the fallback.)
Shoot (if you want. You count as stationary, unless you moved first)
Proceed until next turn and repeat step 1.
 

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Grey Knight Converter
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Just to clarify cause I don't remember the specific wording of the rule. Is the auto rally at the end of the turn or instant. Because if it is at the end of turn you would have to be "fleeing" through your movement and shooting phase than rally. Thus not being allowed to shoot or move.
 

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Executive Nitpicker
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Last Man Standing check happens immediately at the start of the turn, before movement or shooting.

If you fail, you fall back *imediately*

THEN you regroup and go on to move or shoot as normal.

Basically the freakout, the fallback and the regroup all happen before the normal turn.
 

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Gal, I realize you know your stuff, but are you sure SM can move after they fall back. I thought that was their movement for the turn and if they decide to shoot they count as moving. I just want to clarify it sounds too good to be true...:victory:
 

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Executive Nitpicker
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The morale check for LMS happens at the start of the turn, before the movement and shooting phases. If you fail, you fall back.,

Your first fall back move is always made immediately upon failing the morale check, and then continued on each subsequent movement phase.

So you fall back immediately at the start of your turn.

At the start of your movement phase you auto-rally and regroup.

Normally a unit that has just regrouped may not move and counts as having moved for the purposes of firing.

ATSKNF explicitly states on p74 that "Usually troops that regroup may not move normally and always count as moving whether they do or not, but these restrictions do not apply to models with this special rule."

So you fail the test, freak out, fall back before your move phase. Your move phase comes around and you automatically regroup and and may then move and fire as normal (It's now your movement phase.

It's a little tricky, but it's RAW.

I;ve seen people argue that it effectively lets them move teice in the same turn (even if you;re just fighting to stay in the same place) but it's no different than a unit that moves, gets shot up and then falls back in the same turn.
 

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Thanks dude, I think we had this conversation before. I never realized just how good ATSKNF really was
 

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Executive Nitpicker
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No problem. I know it's an issue I've discussed at least once before, but I think it was a while back
 

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Inquisitor
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OMFG is it this argument again!!!!

Just kidding.. yes ATSKNF is that good... some can argue its better than being fearless..
 
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