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Hey T/S, I've come into a large collection of Ogre models with no real idea how to properly utilize them, especially in 8th. As far as I'm concerned, you seem to be one of the more knowledgeable Ogre players out there. Any help you can provide as with units (sizes/equip) you're thinking about running would be much appreciated. I put together a quick list based on other armies I've owned but to me it seems that Ogres play a lot different that most other armies. Sorry for the Laymen terms used here but I don't have the book nor the list with me.

3000

Lord:
Tyrant /w what amounts to a 4+ armour, the item that allows you to ignore wounds, luck knoblar and the mace that acts like a stone thrower

Slaughtermaster - cookbook, 5+ ward save item, luck knoblar

Hero:
Butcher - basic
Bruiser x3 - longswords, heavy armour, greedy armour, luck knoblar

Core:
1 unit of 6 bulls (not sure about gear) - bruiser and butcher here
2 units of 6 manslayers (not sure about gear) - bruisers in each

Rare:
1 unit of 6 maneaters (longswords) - lord/slaughtermaster


Something along those lines, +/- a few models here and there.
 

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OK, you got my attention quite nicely there :p
- you're basically asking for a lot of my views all in one go, so this post is a little lengthy... you've been forewarned :)

I still havent played many games of 8th with my ogres... and those I have my army has either been hit or miss. But I would say that winning combats is rarely a difficulty for ogres in the new rules, which sounds like a fantastic thing, but isnt really. The difficulty comes in breaking the enemy... and ogre units will either need to survive in combat for prolonged periods or have lots of ranks... either way you'll need numbers in your core units.

I'm thinking that lord/hero options should be reduced as much as possible in favour of core, my last list for 2k had 2*9 bulls, 2*6 ironguts and ~40 gnoblar... I struggled for numbers somewhat but was playing HE with teclis with life, so there was never a way I would win that one: having a unit of 5 dragon princes hit 6 ironguts with skrag (150pts vs 718) doesnt sound too bad until Teclis irrisistably casts flesh to stone and throne of vines on 3 dice each... worse was that I let shield of thorns through first to save dice for those 2 spells. Thats now T7 elves that did 2D6 S4 hits on me at the end of teh magic phase... I lost rather badly.
I might combine those bulls into 1 unit and run a ~700pt bull unit that can pump out 54 attacks plus S6 impacts and stomps... its the way Im being forced to go currently.

Anyway, I'll write what I think your list is and then C&C it.

306- Tyrant- dragonhelm, spangleshard, thundermace, luck gnoblar, heavy armour
The thundermace wasnt't advisable before and since stonethrowers now dont ignore armour saves I wouldnt use it now either- stick to the tenderiser (D3 wounds), its much more reliable and makes you a powerhouse, especially in a challenge. I dont liek the spangleshard- its less good then the wyrdstone (5++ is better then rolling over what people roll to wound you, especially since most people need 5+ or 6+ or wound you

250- Slaughtermaster- halfling cookbook, wyrdstone necklace, luck gnoblar
I dont know if you can use MR against gutmagic wounds (I think you can), if so give him 3 gnoblar thiefstones instead of the wyrdstone. I never use the cookbook, its a great item but I think the skullmantle is so good that it cannot be ignored- -1 to all braingobbler, fear, break and panic tests caused by the unit. That means basic elves are down to Ld7 fear tests at the start of every round of combat... to make up for wounds taken by gutmagic I either just suffer, or with the new common items I would take a healing potion and use it when you start a turn on 1-2 wounds (the number of times I've bloodgruel'd myself to death...now there's an answer).

Butcher
I would give him a scroll, either a feedback or a basic one... or if you are playing Archaon a hex scroll, it just has to be done. If the oppostion know you have a feedback scroll then if he casts a 6 dice spell he knows there's a good chance his wizard is dead (unless he gets an irrisistable... in which case there's a good chance everyone around the wizard is dead).

Bruisers
greedy fist should be in all armies, but you can still only take 1. I prefer great weapons to longswords- WS5 and I3 is fine but WS6 and I4 doesnt make you that much better (you'll still go after most enemy characters), so I just go last with S7 instead.. makes me happy. Im thinking skull plucker, enchanted shield and the other trickster's shard/potion of speed is going to be a new challenge monkey for me... and naturally with this being 8th you must take a BSB, not doing so should actually be criminal. Personally Im using the paymaster maneater as the paymaster of my army (good how that works), so he doesnt carry a banner as such but any ogre close to him certainly doesnt want to be seen running away :p

6 bulls
I would up them to 7+ just to keep that rank safe; remember, being ogres means that if you have to ask the enemy what his I is you are going second. Great weapons, lizzies, undead and dwarves are basically all you can compete with, any other army will laugh at your I2.
As for equipment, Im keeping mine incredibly simple... Im not giving them any at all. Why pay points to reduce the effectiveness of ogres: any ogre fighting from a rank with his club is S4 AP 3A, while with any other equipment he's S4 3A... for the few extra attacks from the front rank (reduced further if you have characters in there) I just dont think its worth equipping the whole unit. Ironfists and light armour might be a rival set up... but basic is 35pts, while that is 43pts: +8pts (+23%) and you've exchanged AP for 5+/6++ in combat and 6+ vs shooting/magic. Thats just not good enough for me.
As already said I'm taking units of 9 and thinking about going larger- keep them cheap and use lots of numbers is my few philosophy... we'll have to see how it pens out


6 ironguts
nothing really wrong with these, I've been finding that once again I need more models in the unit, but it gets prohibitively expensive for ironguts. Im thinking that I might start to use bulls over ironguts (having only used minimum bulls through most of 7th), especially since most armies will start to use big blocks of poorly armoured and/or low T models- against hoards bulls have always been far superior.

6 Maneaters
Love maneaters, hate this unit. They are massively expensive per model and only bring +1S, +1A, ItP (a downside I always think) and stubborn over the core ogres... Im going to be using them as single model units, just to block the enemy. I recon that charging them into enemy units and hoping for failed fear while you just hand around killing characters and not breaking (letting other units manouver into the flank or go hunt the rest of the army) is going to be a great tactic for these blokes... though I plan on using gorgers in exactly the same role.


So, I recon big blocks of bulls and some units of ironguts plus challenge monkey bruisers, killer tyrants, a BSB, a slaughtermaster and a backup butcher or 2 are good places to start... then solitary blocker units of gorger/maneaters to pen in the enemy and mebbe even some additional units of gnoblar fighters or scraplaunchers (the most annoying model to build/keep in 1 piece that GW has ever done) will kiely be how ogres will work in 8th. Needs playtesting and to get the views of other ogre players, but thats the way Im thinking...

... and rest :p
 

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I think T\S is going to go crazy sooner or later from ogre love.......

Also i can easly say a bunch of bulls are the biggest pain in the ass for my rat's to poke to death! (Oh we WILL poke you to DEATH but it will take awhile)
 

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I think TS is going to go crazy sooner or later from ogre love.......
um.. going? :crazy:

EDIT-
Also, been looking at BoLS and their views on Ogres and Ive got a few ideas for builds on ogres, the one's that have me smiling to myself currently are these:

Tyrant- Fencer’s Blades, Glittering Scales, Greyback Pelt, Dragonbane Gem (300pts)
WS10, -2 to hit in combat, +1 attack and an added 2++ vs flaming for fun: yes that does mean that anyone WS4 or less is on 7+ to hit you in CC, and even WS10 need a 6 to hit
Bruiser- Skullplucker, enchanted shield, other trickster’s shard, HA
3+AS, S5 KB and rerolls to inv saves- get a lucky KB off and that enemy is toast unless they are immensely lucky
 

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Discussion Starter #5
OK, you got my attention quite nicely there :p
- you're basically asking for a lot of my views all in one go, so this post is a little lengthy... you've been forewarned :)

I still havent played many games of 8th with my ogres... and those I have my army has either been hit or miss. But I would say that winning combats is rarely a difficulty for ogres in the new rules, which sounds like a fantastic thing, but isnt really. The difficulty comes in breaking the enemy... and ogre units will either need to survive in combat for prolonged periods or have lots of ranks... either way you'll need numbers in your core units.

I'm thinking that lord/hero options should be reduced as much as possible in favour of core, my last list for 2k had 2*9 bulls, 2*6 ironguts and ~40 gnoblar... I struggled for numbers somewhat but was playing HE with teclis with life, so there was never a way I would win that one: having a unit of 5 dragon princes hit 6 ironguts with skrag (150pts vs 718) doesnt sound too bad until Teclis irrisistably casts flesh to stone and throne of vines on 3 dice each... worse was that I let shield of thorns through first to save dice for those 2 spells. Thats now T7 elves that did 2D6 S4 hits on me at the end of teh magic phase... I lost rather badly.
I might combine those bulls into 1 unit and run a ~700pt bull unit that can pump out 54 attacks plus S6 impacts and stomps... its the way Im being forced to go currently.

Anyway, I'll write what I think your list is and then C&C it.

306- Tyrant- dragonhelm, spangleshard, thundermace, luck gnoblar, heavy armour
The thundermace wasnt't advisable before and since stonethrowers now dont ignore armour saves I wouldnt use it now either- stick to the tenderiser (D3 wounds), its much more reliable and makes you a powerhouse, especially in a challenge. I dont liek the spangleshard- its less good then the wyrdstone (5++ is better then rolling over what people roll to wound you, especially since most people need 5+ or 6+ or wound you

250- Slaughtermaster- halfling cookbook, wyrdstone necklace, luck gnoblar
I dont know if you can use MR against gutmagic wounds (I think you can), if so give him 3 gnoblar thiefstones instead of the wyrdstone. I never use the cookbook, its a great item but I think the skullmantle is so good that it cannot be ignored- -1 to all braingobbler, fear, break and panic tests caused by the unit. That means basic elves are down to Ld7 fear tests at the start of every round of combat... to make up for wounds taken by gutmagic I either just suffer, or with the new common items I would take a healing potion and use it when you start a turn on 1-2 wounds (the number of times I've bloodgruel'd myself to death...now there's an answer).

Butcher
I would give him a scroll, either a feedback or a basic one... or if you are playing Archaon a hex scroll, it just has to be done. If the oppostion know you have a feedback scroll then if he casts a 6 dice spell he knows there's a good chance his wizard is dead (unless he gets an irrisistable... in which case there's a good chance everyone around the wizard is dead).

Bruisers
greedy fist should be in all armies, but you can still only take 1. I prefer great weapons to longswords- WS5 and I3 is fine but WS6 and I4 doesnt make you that much better (you'll still go after most enemy characters), so I just go last with S7 instead.. makes me happy. Im thinking skull plucker, enchanted shield and the other trickster's shard/potion of speed is going to be a new challenge monkey for me... and naturally with this being 8th you must take a BSB, not doing so should actually be criminal. Personally Im using the paymaster maneater as the paymaster of my army (good how that works), so he doesnt carry a banner as such but any ogre close to him certainly doesnt want to be seen running away :p

6 bulls
I would up them to 7+ just to keep that rank safe; remember, being ogres means that if you have to ask the enemy what his I is you are going second. Great weapons, lizzies, undead and dwarves are basically all you can compete with, any other army will laugh at your I2.
As for equipment, Im keeping mine incredibly simple... Im not giving them any at all. Why pay points to reduce the effectiveness of ogres: any ogre fighting from a rank with his club is S4 AP 3A, while with any other equipment he's S4 3A... for the few extra attacks from the front rank (reduced further if you have characters in there) I just dont think its worth equipping the whole unit. Ironfists and light armour might be a rival set up... but basic is 35pts, while that is 43pts: +8pts (+23%) and you've exchanged AP for 5+/6++ in combat and 6+ vs shooting/magic. Thats just not good enough for me.
As already said I'm taking units of 9 and thinking about going larger- keep them cheap and use lots of numbers is my few philosophy... we'll have to see how it pens out


6 ironguts
nothing really wrong with these, I've been finding that once again I need more models in the unit, but it gets prohibitively expensive for ironguts. Im thinking that I might start to use bulls over ironguts (having only used minimum bulls through most of 7th), especially since most armies will start to use big blocks of poorly armoured and/or low T models- against hoards bulls have always been far superior.

6 Maneaters
Love maneaters, hate this unit. They are massively expensive per model and only bring +1S, +1A, ItP (a downside I always think) and stubborn over the core ogres... Im going to be using them as single model units, just to block the enemy. I recon that charging them into enemy units and hoping for failed fear while you just hand around killing characters and not breaking (letting other units manouver into the flank or go hunt the rest of the army) is going to be a great tactic for these blokes... though I plan on using gorgers in exactly the same role.


So, I recon big blocks of bulls and some units of ironguts plus challenge monkey bruisers, killer tyrants, a BSB, a slaughtermaster and a backup butcher or 2 are good places to start... then solitary blocker units of gorger/maneaters to pen in the enemy and mebbe even some additional units of gnoblar fighters or scraplaunchers (the most annoying model to build/keep in 1 piece that GW has ever done) will kiely be how ogres will work in 8th. Needs playtesting and to get the views of other ogre players, but thats the way Im thinking...

... and rest :p

Thanks a tonne! Now to read and digest! It seems I can't give you any more rep else I would!

Cheers.
 
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