[Jubble]

OK, so 7th Ed is out (or whatever we are supposed to call it) and IG are now AM. All change.

Where does that leave us? I'm in the lucky position of planning an AM (ugh, IG) army, without having bought much, so I can change direction. Was going with a lot of Vets in Chimeras, Hydras, Manticore, Marbo and a couple of Russ's. Now I'm not sure at all.

What are the early thoughts from the community?

I'd be interested in how people view the combined rules and codex changes impact the "standard" builds? I have to admit that as a newbie IG player I don't know what those standard builds are, so a quick run-down of the previous go-to options would be welcome, with thoughts on how they could be adapted to the new lay of the land. And are there some new lists that have become viable?

 

[Bringbackmacharius]

This should really be in guard tactica section I think.

Anyway, it seems the general consensus is/was if you wanna do mech guard (Chim/taurox vets, vendettas, manticores) still feel free, in fact it might be better now with changes to vehicle damage and scoring and the mission cards. However, gun line works too and with the changes to psykers (last night my Primaris got the rending debuff power and cast it every turn on a unit of termies much to my Lasguns pleasure) has also buffed gunline, admittedly at the mercy of psychic phase and good dice.

I guess it depends on your area meta. Do you fight a lot of tourney cheese lists with DeathStars and the like? Or just casual gamers with fluff lists?

 

[Jubble]

Thank you for the reply, very useful. :good:

The fact that I don't know what a DeathStar list is probably tells you enough about my normal play.

I have some fluff in mind, but want the list to be competitive in friendly games. I guess I want to play a list where there is a balance of foot soldiers and tanks, and allows me to take part in maneuvering rather than watch the oppo have all the fun.

PS - I obviously don't understand the difference between tactica and lists. I would have thought that picking your army was lists and playing them was tactica - I guess the difference is whether you have an army list to post up for the thoughts of the community? Can I move this to another part of the forum, or do I need start again?

 

[Bringbackmacharius]

I only mentioned it cause there's a sticky post saying "this sub forum is for lists only".

This post comes across as a tactics discussion as opposed to a list request.

Also, fluffy thematic lists can still be "competitive" as long as you don't insist on awful units for "fluff" reasons. Like a vet squad with flamer, GL, PG, mortar and demo experts because it has story, as the weapon composition in that isn't optimal.

And Death Star is like the Star Wars Death Star. Big ball of death with little weakness. An all your eggs in one basket approach.

 

[CE5511]

Bringbackmacharius covered death stars pretty well. Examples would be a Squad of Grey Knight Paladins with Draigo attached, especially when the codex first came out when power weapons ignored all armor saves period. But the unit costs tons of points, sometimes a quarter or more of your army. But if it hits your lines, expect to lose a ton of models and invest a lot into dealing with them, or ignore it when you can. Another unit would be a basic TH/SS termie squad, tough as nails and hits like a brick.

On that note, I actually think full platoons will be stupid good this set. 50 Soldiers with a Psyker and priest. Priest casts prescience or gives his whole unit force weapons, while the priest sings and makes them fearless with rerolls first round of combat. The thoughts of 2 platoons of them running up field makes me cry tears of sweet sweet joy lol

 

[Bringbackmacharius]

On that note, I actually think full platoons will be stupid good this set. 50 Soldiers with a Psyker and priest. Priest casts prescience or gives his whole unit force weapons, while the priest sings and makes them fearless with rerolls first round of combat. The thoughts of 2 platoons of them running up field makes me cry tears of sweet sweet joy lol

Psykers are fun this ed. Hope for misfortune and cast it on a unit of termies. Rending Lasguns with first rank fire second rank fire.

Also, you seem to be misreading the force psyker power. I misread it too. Only units that hve a weapon with the "Force" special rule gain insta death.

A note about priests. Whilst they can be used in some odd Straken counter assault list with hidden power axes and conscripts etc they do have the disadvantage of meaning you can't go to ground. So a Commisar can be better if all you want is the ability for 'scripts to not flee (oh no your opponent may choose to kill any of your 3 point lasgun holders.).

 

[CE5511]

Good call on the force weapons, seemed waaayy to good!! Bursts my bubble though lol.

The priests are definitely dependent on your style of play. My idea was to advance them into your opponents face, shoot, stab, repeat. So for me the priest would work best for the rerolls and his abilities. Otherwise the Commissar takes first for every other way. Objective holding, gunlines, etc.

 

[Bringbackmacharius]

Yeah. I'd just be gutted if i rolled a 1 and they killed my HWT.

Although when Yarrick shot a sergeant in a challenge so I could deny an objective was pretty funny in my last 6th ed game.

PS Yarrick is amazing. He got up after death twice and contested an objective to force a draw.

Edit: confused Stubborn with Draconian Disciplinarian.

 

[Jubble]

Interesting. It does appear that my original list might work after all, with a combination of lots of mech troops and a few tanks. This article is interesting, apart from the off-putting picture of some mad kid.

 

[Bringbackmacharius]

Interesting. It does appear that my original list might work after all, with a combination of lots of mech troops and a few tanks. This article is interesting, apart from the off-putting picture of some mad kid.

Good find man. Pretty much confirms everything I thought. MSU style has been improved, mech lists too, Daemonology psychic lists will be a double edged sword (either it goes too far or not far enough to be worth it) and Guard lists with max psykers and bodies will be great (I plan on 3 Primaris and a Telepath). I'm unsure on the standing of Manticores, no longer can they get a lucky pen and you would have to roll well to glance most things to death in 1 turn but they affectively ignore cover due to no area terrain.

Edit: it also vindicates my decision to buy 90 steel legion for £100, now I just need transports!

 

[Jubble]

What would you use to replace the Medusa?

 

[Bringbackmacharius]

Double post by accident.

 

[Bringbackmacharius]

What would you use to replace the Medusa?

You mean manticores? Or do you mean the fact they took out the griffons and medusas?

The latter you can still use them, as per one of the Imperial armour books. It might be a bit ropey in competitive play however. Or you could just take another manticore, as the norm use to be 2 manticores and a medusa for your HS slots. That should guarantee a couple of hidden vehicles destroyed through sheer number of HPS lost.

As for alternatives to manticores, maybe Batteries of Basilisks. For 2 manticores you can get 3 basilisks. But they really aren't better, just more consistent and can land pie plates on MEQs and ignore cover. I toyed with the idea of Deathstrikes coming in on turn 2 via reserves and using an Enginseer to get the Launch off in spite of moving. But I'm not sure that's legal.

 

[Jubble]

You mean manticores? Or do you mean the fact they took out the griffons and medusas?

I did mean the latter - I don't think my gaming buddies like the idea of using (un)official options, even if sanctioned by GW. Too many memories of ridiculously good dark elf star players for Bloodbowl being "found" on the internet.

I think the next step will be for me to update my army list and post it here for further thought. Thank you hugely for your help so far.

 

[Jubble]

I think the next step will be for me to update my army list and post it here for further thought. Thank you hugely for your help so far.

OK, so here is the post with the revised army list. I've had a response on it already, but would very much welcome your thoughts as well. Thank you!