Sorry for the delayed reply, was kinda busy... Will also admit I was slightly intimidated but I probably shouldn't be.
:laugh: you know there's a
40k rules discussion thread on this site, eh? Lots of people aren't on Dakka/are here for a reason.
Actually no, I managed to miss that forum somehow, don't know why. :wacko:
I only saw 40k general, Tactics and painting around the section, I assumed it was because this site was stricter about rules talk than Dakka, but that doesn't seem to actually be the case. Maybe I was thinking of Librarium Online, where they seem to hyperventilate if you so much as quote a rule.
The 'swap all weapons' does not mean 'take any upgrades you want then swap them all out for x and pay all the points', it means the model's hands are full. It was worded that way so that Sergeants could swap their power swords as well, unless you've forgotten that fateful FAQ from 6th edition. I agree that it stops you from taking the CML first then taking the TH/SS, but again...why would you upgrade just to take it away?
For the record, I only had the 6th edition Codex for a little while before the 7E one rocked my army and I barely even saw that FAQ. Only thing I remembered was the Ravenwing Huntmaster being banned from having a Power Axe or Power Lance, which they also seemed to relent on in this book.
(Also replying to Xabre with this point) I was told that there was no such thing as a model having it's hands full (explaining the weird wording of Two-Handed and the Storm Shield's "No extra attacks" property as well as how Command Squad guys can have a Special Weapon, Melee Weapon AND Storm Shield all at once. First heard this regarding the Assault Squad Flamers) or orders of upgrades (except for related ones like "take Missile Launcher -> take Flakk Missiles" or "take Terminator Armor -> take items from the Terminator Weapons list". Don't remember where I heard this), I must say this has thrown me for a loop!
In actuality, the requirement for access to the list is having 5/10 models in the squad. Swapping the storm bolter is again just a matter of how many hands a Terminator has, and merely stops you from having to put the SB into a holster at its side since GW provides its kits with 100% WYSIWYG capability and expects hobbyists to follow that guideline. In order to take the assault/plasma cannons or heavy flamer the Codex requires a stormbolter swap, but the CML requires you to have a specific number of models in the squad.
Well, you have 1 per 5 guys pointed at the list but I thought after you arrive at the list you'd need whatever it says at the top to actually use it?
Also seems like replacing it would be to stop you firing the SB instead of whatever fancy weapon was picked (in case they were too far away for the Heavy Flamer or you didn't want to risk Getting Hot with the Plasma Cannon)?
"You must have a storm bolter to not swap it for another weapon" got laughed at by my gaming group in any case so I've got nothing else to add from them.
Well, very glad you've got solid consensus there and that nobody will cry foul on your model. And for whatever it might be worth BattleScribe agrees with you (despite the files coming from Dakka), I tried setting up a 5 man squad with all TH/SS before picking a CML and it let me (and it didn't with the other three so it's not just the program forgetting to look at the Storm Bolters).
I am torn apart by this though as one forum insists it's impossible so hard that they had guys hacking the CMLs off their Hammernators and another laughs at the suggestion that it can't happen, really confusing... I hate when stuff like this happens... :cray:
In any case, I probably wouldn't do it, I'm already eating a hole through myself over the thought of possibly running into the Ravenwing HQ Problem or the Deathwing Land Raider Dilemma with future army additions and the only time I've actually thought of taking Hammernators is when it wouldn't be possible anyway (alternate TH/SS Sergeants so their CCWs will actually have AP2 like the normal guys, and so AP2 weapons would have to get through a tougher invulnerable if he's in front! :biggrin
or when I didn't really want it anyway (My future Deathwing Command Squad, current loadout idea: 2x TH/SS, Champion, Apothecary and one guy with Chainfist and Plasma Cannon. All AP2 all the time! ...Except Doc).
