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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Recently I have been playing a lot of games with a friend whos running dark elves against my high elves and the issue ive been running into that I would like to get some clarity on is that he says: because my whiteions have ASF and great weapons that the great weapons ASL rule cancels my ASF rule meaning we strike in initiative order right... and because ive lost ASF to my ASL rule, therefore he keeps his always strikes first... is this correct? Because I also read that ASF will cancel out ASF... which rule is applied first.
 

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I'm not sure if that's the case. I mean, after all, the entire purpose of the Swordmasters unit is basically that they're guys with Great Weapons with ASF...

Or maybe it's just that elven init is so high that it might as well be the same thing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The intention I see as correct however I just found it a bit unfair my own rules cancel eachother out and he still gets to keep his asf and rerolls. Which he knows puts me at a disadvantage against dark elf units... I mean I still won the match but something about that combination of my rules shafting my own units irks me. However im going to have to get used to it as my armies at the moment are high elves and wood elves.
 

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The intention I see as correct however I just found it a bit unfair my own rules cancel eachother out and he still gets to keep his asf and rerolls. Which he knows puts me at a disadvantage against dark elf units... I mean I still won the match but something about that combination of my rules shafting my own units irks me. However im going to have to get used to it as my armies at the moment are high elves and wood elves.
ha ha feel ya but at least your great weapon wielding units get to strike at initiative order, which being a elf you normally have a higher initiative than most army so there for still striking first, so I don't see your own un its getting shafted if anything your asf rule helps u with great weapons as any other non elf army will strike last with them, I play dwarfs and love my great weapon wielding dwarfs but the asl really can hurt sometimes,( I know even striking at int order for a dwarf I normally strike last still) but u get my point , if you did have to strike last with them rather than initiative order that could really hurt.
 

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While it is true that both rules cancel each other out for the purpose of striking order and the asf rerolls of your oponents, they do not, however, cancel each other out for the purpose of rules like «Blizzard aura» and Bironna's Timewarp which grant always strike last and always strike first.

A model can only ever have these special rules once, even if they are both present and cancelled in the same model, it cannot gain another, non-cancelled additional instance of either.

For any reason.

I have no clue why it works like that, but that's how it's ruled all over the place, according to my gaming club and to Ulthuan.net.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
@kickboxerdog, i meant it boned me against dark elves which is what my bestie plays and has chosen as his main army lol there are only a few of us in the group.

Alex: has 9 armies but only mainly wants to play Dark Elves (my main competition at the moment)
Chris: Daemons of Chaos, once he gets all the model bases and stuff together.
Scott: Skaven, once he purchases the models he needs.
Tristyn: Empire, is buying a lot of models.
Klay: Lizard-men, Works a lot so its hard to t-up a game with him.
and Ofcourse Myself: With High Elves, and Wood Elves.

Up until the last month or so its just been Alex and i duking it out Dark Elves Vs High Elves, and i was constantly running into the issue with losing out to him on the my own asf canceled out by great weapon asl. Mainly on the white lions.
 

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@kickboxerdog, i meant it boned me against dark elves which is what my bestie plays and has chosen as his main army lol there are only a few of us in the group.

Alex: has 9 armies but only mainly wants to play Dark Elves (my main competition at the moment)
Chris: Daemons of Chaos, once he gets all the model bases and stuff together.
Scott: Skaven, once he purchases the models he needs.
Tristyn: Empire, is buying a lot of models.
Klay: Lizard-men, Works a lot so its hard to t-up a game with him.
and Ofcourse Myself: With High Elves, and Wood Elves.

Up until the last month or so its just been Alex and i duking it out Dark Elves Vs High Elves, and i was constantly running into the issue with losing out to him on the my own asf canceled out by great weapon asl. Mainly on the white lions.
aww ok fair one if u can get other games againt they other guys u game with your white lions will excel, but yeah kind of lose out to another army that has asf all round.
 

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I mean, for the record, Dark Elves with great weapons have the same "problem" against your non-great weapon high elves... just pointing out it's not a one-way deal ;)
 
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