[Pandawithissues...]

Browsing earlier, I looked at the new ork spearhead box and laughed my arse off.

Its simply @?%*. For £100 You get 28 models. And as far as i can tell, not even a legal army. (I dont have the new dex, but unless warbikers are troops, this is not a full army)

To put it into perspective, in the £100 SM megaforce nets you 34 models, of which 2 are tanks and one is a dread. It also looks like pretty much an army to play straight out the box, with 3 troops choices.

Now, i appreciate that all the SMs are plastic, but i'd have thought GW would try and produce an ork box, that, well, you know, people could use as an army.

Orks are supposed to be a horde. They arn't supposed to be outnumbered by space marines. This army isnt orky.

Anyone else got any opinions on this, or any of the other boxes?

I know the guard battalion one is, well crap too. (Also nowhere NEAR a legal army, not even a single legal troops choice if you don't include the heavy weapons in the squads)

 

[Steel Rain]

GW tries to make these "starter" boxes for their customers. They aren't really starter boxes at all.

 

[Djinn24]

I always dislikedthe box sets, other then the Apoc ones, no matter what it seems they include something that I do not want in them that ruins the savings you get from the box. I kinda wish they would have a pick your own army deal, like my old store did, where is you bought $X you ended up getting $X free. That allows the customer to pick and schoose what we ant to play with.

But I agree they really need to rebalance the starter boxes. A true starter box should be 500 points, dex legal, and damn near ready to play out of the box, and none of these crap snap together like they used to have either.

 

[Alexander_67]

Never really bought a box set. I've painted them of course (i have a tau one donated by a freind) but it just seems to me that they never contain all the things i want or have things inside i'll never use. The only box set i ever wanted was the vostroyan guardsman one which i'm still kicking myself over not getting when it came out.

 

[Pandawithissues...]

that they never contain all the things i want or have things inside i'll never use

no matter what it seems they include something that I do not want in them that ruins the savings you get from the box.

My thoughts on the matter exactly.

I would love to see a build your own box deal. The rules could be something like:

By 2 troops choices that fulfill the basic restrictions. So for the skaven it would have to contain at least 1 box of clanrats (1+), get one HQ of your choice (whether metal or plastic, then have x amount extra to spend, where x = £50-(2 troops +HQ) then get a £10-15 voucher to spend. People could then get the army book/codex if they needed it, or another boxed set. Even a set of the new metals if they wanted, a few blisters, or painting/hobbying supplies.

 

[neilbatte]

it seems to me that the whole orc range is ridiculously expensive the only thing that kept me interested in horde armies was the amount of troops you got in a unit for your money now it costs £24 for a small unit of 20 orcs and dont get me started on gobbos

 

[Pandawithissues...]

Well, in contrast to the 40k ork army of crapness, the fantasy orcs nets you a real horde at £100. 96 models of which 10 are cavalry and 1 is a chariot.

An appropriately sized horde i think.

79 models including 18 cavalry and 1 hellblaster in the empire £100 set

102(!) models in the dwarf army set including 2 cannons.

Bow to fantasy, the superior game system.

 

[cccp]

but, GW would never give you a build your own box deal as they wouldnt make much money from it really. also, the difference between armies is immence.

eg - a guard legal army -
troops - 20 guardsmen (£18) + junior officer (£7) + 4 other guardsmen (£14-18)
troops - 20 guardsmen (£18) + junior officer (£7) + 4 other guardsmen (£14-18)

Hq - (£15)

total - around £80

however, for a legal SM army

troops - 2xSpace Marine Box - (£36)
HQ - (£15)

total - just under £50

 

[torealis]

Sigh.

The Ork Spearhead is not an army box. Otherwise it would be called the Ork Army Box.

Spearheads are a chance to get one of each of the new boxes a week or so ahead of the release date with the army book often coming with it. You also save a bit. They are aimed at people wanting to update their armies with all the new stuff, not at providing an army in a box.

I dont know where youve got this concept that the £50 boxes should have to be battle ready forces. Thats not what they are and not what theyre advertised as. They are a starter point to build a force. The guard battleforce has the infrastructure of an excellent force, why should it be game legal? its not advertised as an army. Guard for one are impractical to put in a £50 box as it would be shit and dull, 55 guys, thats it. yawn. its also policy that they are plastic only boxes (for 40k and WFB) so some armies cannot get an HQ in there.
As for megaforces (40k) and Army boxes (WFB) They provide excellent value for money and give you a good, balanced addition to anarmy. So theyre not for you? oh well. They give a good starting point for decent sized armies in a balanced way, no, they wont give you a tournament ready army in a box, but thats not what theyre for.

now it costs £24 for a small unit of 20 orcs and dont get me started on gobbos

No it doesnt, 19 orcs are £18, same for Goblins, though if its goblins you want, pick up skull pass. though if you want both, the batallion box (£50) is ace.

Now, i appreciate that all the SMs are plastic, but i'd have thought GW would try and produce an ork box, that, well, you know, people could use as an army.

they have produced a £50 battleforce that contains the core needed for an effective army, 20 boyz, trukk and 3 bikes. a nice bolstering force.

basically, stop whinging. GW are giving you the CHOICE to save money by picking up a box with lots of stuff in it. If its not what you want, and isnt worth it for you, dont fucking buy it. But dont whinge like its GW trying to shit on you.

 

[Lord Sinkoran]

you have a point panda. i blame the new ork codex its not orky at all, the army has losts its horde like fell to it

 

[torealis]

you have a point panda. i blame the new ork codex its not orky at all, the army has losts its horde like fell to it

Ork wise, panda does not have a point, read my post to learn what a spearhead is.

on a second note though, have you even read the ork codex? its the orkiest thing ive ever seen. As for having lost its horde feel, what the fuck are you talking about? 6pts per boy with furious charge and fleeting in a battle? i'll take a 1500pt list with 180 boyz led by ghazgull please. thats combat in turn 2.

what theyve done is add flexibiliy. you can do a horde list, you can do an elite list, you can do a fast list, you can do a silly list.

 

[Ordo Xeno Commander]

im with Tor on this one. despite not having read the orky codex, i have friends who play it and they just marvel at it. not to mention the new models. wtf are you bitching about, the new stuff actually a) looks orky, more-so than the old stuff and b) actually resembles what they are supposed to be, i mean just look at the trukk!!

battleforces often dont give you absolutely everything you need to build an army straight of the box, and it should be that way. leaving out vital units gives you the chance to build your army how you want. all lists have a variety of choices for each type of slot. giving you one ready to play restricts you to using that exact set of units, confining your starting ability to vary your army, which is important especially for SM, being a very easy army to make the same as other people.

 

[neilbatte]

160 ork boys and ghazgull, well if your happy spending nearly £250 for what could only be described as one of the most boring armies ever then enjoy, and i notice you never added gretchen are they to expensive for you, fantasy armies are rapidly becoming the more affordable

 

[cccp]

160 ork boys and ghazgull, well if your happy spending nearly £250 for what could only be described as one of the most boring armies ever then enjoy, and i notice you never added gretchen are they to expensive for you, fantasy armies are rapidly becoming the more affordable

dude, fantasy always used to be so much more expensive. times change tho eh?

 

[Alexander_67]

dude, fantasy always used to be so much more expensive. times change tho eh?

Amen to that. Its weird how the prices have shifted over time. Trying to follow current fads i guess

 

[torealis]

160 ork boys and ghazgull, well if your happy spending nearly £250 for what could only be described as one of the most boring armies ever then enjoy, and i notice you never added gretchen are they to expensive for you, fantasy armies are rapidly becoming the more affordable

it was an illustration of how orks can very very easily be a horde army. not a literal army list.

 

[Pandawithissues...]

Fair enough point at the spearhead tor. Thank you for clarifying what their main use is.

Lets keep opinions on the new ork codex out of this shall we? I havent read it yet, and so havent commented.

My main point was that the boxed set looked unorky and uneconomical. Which tor has cleared up for us all on what the spearhead is trying to achieve.

However, i will point out you get more space marines in the SM battalion than you get orks in the ork battalion. Still doesnt seem very orky to me, but thats just MY opinion.