[jigplums]

I don't think armour is too weak[in general] for its points.
FIrstly Krak missiles. They are an anti-tank weapon, if they couldn't kill a landraider then i'd be pretty worried.
Tanks can move and shoot heavy weapons. Many people underestimate the value of this. Movement is a very important factor in 40k and the ability to start behind cover and not be shot at all on the first turn, then come out from behind cover and let rip should not be overlooked.
Tanks are often cheap. Lets look at a predator. for a few points more than a 7 man tactical squad you can have a twin-linked lascannon and 2 heavybolters. for less than a 6 man tactical you can get a dred with assaultcannon, one of the best heavy weapons in the game.
Tanks are reliable. Often vechiles will have twin-linked weaponry. more likely to do what you want it to. Yippee
Tanks are partially invulnerable. Anything with an armour value is partially invulnerable to certain weapons. you could take a pred or leman russ and it be immune to 80% of your opponents army. Great now you only have 20% to avoid/destroy with your vechile to stay alive
Tanks can give you acess to weaponry you wouldn't normally get. Battlecannons, whirlwinds, infernocannons, prisms, pulselasers etc...

IMO armour is not weak.

 

[jigplums]

I think I shall engage in a rebuttal Jig

excellent time for a little debate

Tanks can move and shoot heavy weapons. Many people underestimate the value of this. Movement is a very important factor in 40k and the ability to start behind cover and not be shot at all on the first turn, then come out from behind cover and let rip should not be overlooked.

True but in general this doesn't happen as you have to mix roles for the tank to do so. Taking all heavy weapons for anti armour means you can only shoot one and move. Taking anti troop weapons on a vehicle that has anti tank for its main weapon means that 90% of the time you won't be firing 3/4 of the weapons as they don't hurt armour OR that the anti tank shot is being wasted for the most part by being shot at a unit that it wasn't designed to hurt. Now taking all anti infantry weapons is available for the most part but most people take tanks for their vehicle killing ability. So this isn't as great a thing as it seems. The only exception is the Tau vehicles that can shoot multiple targets

Good point, however this is no different to the equivilent points going into infantry. Lets say we have a 7 man tactical squad with lascannon, plasmagun and 5 bolters vs a pred with twin-linked lascannon and heavybolters. If you fire the lascannon and plasmagun at a tank, you have wasted the bolters, if you fire at infantry the lascannon/plasmagun is overkill. The heavybolter is in most instances better at anti-infantry than the bolters, with more range str and ap. If you come against a low armour target like a sentinel, landspeeder vyper, piranah or rhino or even the rear or side of a tank then the hvybolters aren't to shabby. If you feel enemy armour is the biggest threat you can spend the first few turn neutralising that and then go onto infantry in the later turns. Plus you have the movement to be affective. You can deal with threat on one side of the board and then manauvre to get the otherside, with your extra range meaning you can often get a shot off everyturn.

Tanks are often cheap. Lets look at a predator. for a few points more than a 7 man tactical squad you can have a twin-linked lascannon and 2 heavybolters. for less than a 6 man tactical you can get a dred with assaultcannon, one of the best heavy weapons in the game.

True, no real arguement here. I do stand by my opinion that dreads are useless point sinks however lol.

I disagree, for the points I think they are an extremely worthy investment. Bearing in mind they are an elite choice so don't stop you taking the heavier armour out. Against some opps they are awesome to get into combat with and again they can lay down a heavy stream of fire whilst they advance. They are an ideal countercharge unit and can even instant kill a Daemonprince . Drop pod them in for best results The only time i think they dont do so well is in escalation, but if they have gone for the lascannon and or ml then its not too bad. Plus they can fire 2 heavyweapons whilst moving. Venerable dreds are more survivable than a heavier tank in general and gives you access to tankhunter or furious charge. STR 10 twinlinked lascannon anyone? str7 assault cannon. Very compitant anti-armour there imo. plus the thing to remember is what can you take instead for the same points? For a standar dred your looking at 5/6 marines.

Tanks are partially invulnerable. Anything with an armour value is partially invulnerable to certain weapons. you could take a pred or leman russ and it be immune to 80% of your opponents army. Great now you only have 20% to avoid/destroy with your vechile to stay alive.

Partially true but the sheer amount of anti tank weaponry fielded in most armies negates this.

here comes the rock, paper, sissors analogy. If your opp loads out on anti-tank take all infantry for a few games. Then see him waste all those railgun/lasannon shots. Then, when he's started to adapt a bit throw in the armour again and see how he copes.

Can't agree here. Tanks die very very easily or at the least are rendered useless over and over by a single glancing hit. Penetrating hits SHOULD be devastating just by their nature but not a glancing hit. Not in any way, shape, or form. Just because a rocket deflects off the hull does not mean that the crew inside are suddenly incapable of firing their weapon. All they have heard is a large noise outside the tank so I can't see how that would stop the commander from pulling the trigger on his weapon. If they were to do away with shaken and stunned and make it only on higher glancing rolls (not to mention removing the glancing Destroyed result, armour in the game would still be as killable as now but would no longer be as easily marginallized.

Like anything its the way you use them that counts. Reduce los as much as possible so you get the least return fire, pick your targets based on minimising the affectiveness of your opp's army. Always start behind cover if possible, when you present targets present lots of targets. Remember to divide and conquer. if a tank cant shoot for a turn go 12" reducing los using cover as much as possible and blow smokes, always try to have your front armour facing the enemy.