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Discussion Starter #1
I've been thinking about getting into either Armada or X-wing. Sadly, I only have the time/money for one of them. So, which game do you think I should invest in? What are the pros & cons of each? Which is your favorite and why? Let the debate begin.

And in the words of Mortal Kombat...

FIGHT!
 

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X-Wing because I like squadrons and aces more than I like flagships and planning 3 turns of movement ahead.

..or because it's less expensive.

..or because you get a bigger Millennium Falcon.
 

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Armada plays a lot similar to 40k (grand battle RTS) - usually takes about 2 hours to play a game (maybe 1.5 if you have your shit together before starting)

generally utilizes capital ships vs squadrons.

General Start up funds - ballpark $200-250 (not counting additional items such as storage)

----

X-Wing

plays more akin to a necromunda or other RPGs I would say.

game play is usually lasts an hour or so I'd say - @ntaw am I right, it's been a few months since I've played, the group has been playing a lot of Armada lately

Start up funds - Ballpark around $75-100 to get a good start

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Hope that helps you a bit @Uber Ork, I like both systems - probably like X-wing more since it is more "pick up and go" friendly to go to the FLGS for me. Armada is nice to play with friends prearranged for me since I'm not very competitive for that game system (which currently I feel has a lot more of a competitive list show up in a pickup game)
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
@ ntaw:

X-Wing because I like squadrons and aces more than I like flagships and planning 3 turns of movement ahead.
The movement planning for big ships does seem like it wold take time to get good at. Are there more special characters or "aces" in x-wing? It seemed like there are "aces" (of sorts) in Armada too (i.e. special characters with special powers and boosts, etc).


..or because it's less expensive.
That's for sure. The start up cost with Armada is significantly more. Still it's way less than 40k which is the game system I used to play when I had more time/money.


..or because you get a bigger Millennium Falcon.
Ha ha, also true! :) However, Armada has Star Destroyers. :wink:



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@ Fallen:

Ok, first up...


Game type:

Armada =
plays a lot similar to 40k (grand battle RTS)
--- versus ---

X-wing =
plays more akin to a necromunda or other RPGs I would say.
So large table top (i.e. 40K) -vs- skirmish (i.e. Necromunda). I've never been too much into skirmish games, as I usually live by the maxim if a little is good, more is better. However, with my current time and budget limitations, a skirmish game might be more realistic for me. But... then there's my love of huge fleets and the fact that you get to play with Star Destroyers!

Advantage: Armada



.

Playing time:

Armada =
usually takes about 2 hours to play a game
--- versus ---

X-wing =
game play is usually lasts an hour or so I'd say
1 hour would be better for my current time constraints, but 2 hours isn't too unreasonable. Coming out of 40k, anything under 3-4 hours seems fantastic! In the end however, sometimes I only have an hour...

Advantage: X-wing



.

Scale:

Armada =
generally utilizes capital ships
--- versus ---

X-wing =
squadrons
As already mentioned, I'm a sucker for playing a whole fleet -vs- a single squadron (even if you imagined it was part of a fleet). The scale for x-wing would make large capital ships impractical. Even if fantasy flight built a star destroyer it would be the size of a dining room table. Who could afford it/store it/transport it? This leaves only one game system capable of slaking my capital ship thirst. No surprise here...

Advantage: Armada



.

Start up cost:

Armada =
General Start up funds - ballpark $200-250 (not counting additional items such as storage)
--- versus ---

X-wing =
Start up funds - Ballpark around $75-100 to get a good start
Ouch, Armada is pretty steep when compared to x-wing. Still, way better than what I was used to with 40K. I wonder if in the end, after you've purchased all the available ships for both game systems, if the cost is similar? Still though, with 4 little mouths to feed, $75-100 sounds way more my speed...

Advantage: X-wing



.

End result? Tied after 4 categories!

Hmmm... well that was inconclusive. :laugh: It sounds like Armada is the game I want to play, while X-wing is the game I can afford/have time to play.



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Hope that helps you a bit @Uber Ork, I like both systems - probably like X-wing more since it is more "pick up and go" friendly to go to the FLGS for me.
You totally were helpful! I can see how it would be easier to grab a few small fighters and whip out a quick game. Something that's super helpful in my situation.

Armada is nice to play with friends prearranged for me since I'm not very competitive for that game system (which currently I feel has a lot more of a competitive list show up in a pickup game)
That's interesting. I think this has been my experience without question when playing skirmish -vs- large scale battles. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because skirmish is smaller and more intimate. It just creates that "let's hang out and have fun together" vibe. I think everyone knows large scale battles can be this way too, but so often they tend to be more on the competitive side. I wonder why?

Most likely I would be playing Armada with my close friends. Usually, as I'm sure it's the case in most places, when one of us gets in, the rest are soon to follow. We all used to play 40K extensively, and had a huge gaming group. However, over time that has dwindled. It's just getting too darn expensive. And the time... don't even get me started on the time. :)













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game play is usually lasts an hour or so I'd say
Gameplay lasts as long as it takes to finish the game unless you're playing at a tournament. If all players are seasoned vets that know their lists and the rules that all the cards on the table are employing well it can take an hour, otherwise who knows? I've had 100 point games take well into the 2-3 hour mark at times based on game knowledge or just whether or not new and adventurous things are being tested.

The movement planning for big ships does seem like it wold take time to get good at.
Movement of ships in X-Wing takes time to get good at too, and depending on your squad build can be anywhere from painstakingly difficult to driving a bus down an empty 5 lane highway. I'm just not interested in the movement mechanic of large ships in Armada.

Are there more special characters or "aces" in x-wing? It seemed like there are "aces" (of sorts) in Armada too (i.e. special characters with special powers and boosts, etc).
If you've seen the new movie, think about Poe. He's an ace. A lone ship, whipping around the enemy's fighters wreaking havoc and doing all the sweetest maneuvers doing it. Both systems have special characters and fluffy ways of building your squadrons, but there's something specifically satisfying about having lone ships just rip through the enemy lines without being touched (Soontir Fel, Whisper, Darth Vader, Tycho Celchu, Jake Farrell, that sort of thing). I don't think I would ever describe the pilot team of a large ship as aces despite them even potentially being the best at their jobs.

However, Armada has Star Destroyers.
Have you taken in the Imperial Raider for X-Wing? We still get massive ships that move uniquely and use totally different rules and even the same play area. Not to mention it comes with a TIE Advanced and some awesome pilots for it plus an absolute ton of rockin' upgrade cards. There's even still a large planning ahead factor to the X-Wing huge ships in that you have to plan your energy use; something I find way more thematic for big ships.

I've never been too much into skirmish games, as I usually live by the maxim if a little is good, more is better. However, with my current time and budget limitations, a skirmish game might be more realistic for me. But... then there's my love of huge fleets and the fact that you get to play with Star Destroyers!
This sounds like you want people to convince you to play Armada because that's the game you actually like.

I'm a sucker for playing a whole fleet -vs- a single squadron (even if you imagined it was part of a fleet). The scale for x-wing would make large capital ships impractical.
This is what my girlfriend and I do all the time. She has the Raider and a contingent of TIEs and a Decimator ('cuz we don't have a Gozanti yet) and I play all small base Rebel ships. Sometimes I'll bring the YT1300/2400 to the party but I really like certain builds and they tend to fit together certain ways. X-Wing will never have capital ships but there's still tons of fleet play, albeit at a higher financial and storage requirement.

This leaves only one game system capable of slaking my capital ship thirst. No surprise here...
Again, it sounds like you just want to play Armada. What's really the point of this thread? :laugh:

I wonder if in the end, after you've purchased all the available ships for both game systems, if the cost is similar?
Given that both systems are ever expanding and that Disney now has a hand in how it's released: there will always be more to buy.

Start proxying cards you want to try out for either system. Print them off (all available card's graphics are easily findable online, FFG doesn't hide their rules) or just write the effects down on a piece of paper, but don't fall into the trap of buying ships because they have absolutely key cards for certain ships (Starviper for Autothrusters and the K-Wing for Twin Laser Turret spring to mind, though they are both fun ships to play in my opinion).
 

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TBH it does sound like you want to play Armada, but the initial cost and time investment is putting you off.
I think the simplest question, and the most important one, is what is played locally?

I play x-wing, because all the local gamers play it. They also play Armada, but when I go down the club, I am much more likely to get an x-wing game.

Whats the most popular system locally, or are you lucky enough to be able to influence and drive forward a game system?
 

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Armada is Strategic, X-wing Tactical. X-wing is much more dependent on card synergy tricks, and can be less fun sometimes because of that. Armada can be less fun depending on the size and composition of ships. The bigger ships sometimes get overwhelming.
 

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X-wing is much more dependent on card synergy tricks, and can be less fun sometimes because of that.
:laugh: that's just about my favourite part of it!

Then again I love list making in 40k, so I likely get it from there.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
If all players are seasoned vets that know their lists and the rules that all the cards on the table are employing well it can take an hour, otherwise who knows? I've had 100 point games take well into the 2-3 hour mark at times based on game knowledge or just whether or not new and adventurous things are being tested.
Makes sense. Whether playing a table top or board game, you've also got to take into account the people you're playing with. You've got the one type of player who's ready to go and moves quickly on one end of the spectrum, and the type who takes forever to make their moves/take their turn, etc. on the other. If you're playing that 2nd type, a game (all be it, any game) will take longer as well.



Movement of ships in X-Wing takes time to get good at too, and depending on your squad build can be anywhere from painstakingly difficult to driving a bus down an empty 5 lane highway.
How does squad building affect movement to make it so difficult? I've only seen bits of games be played and watched a few online tutorials.



If you've seen the new movie, think about Poe. He's an ace. A lone ship, whipping around the enemy's fighters wreaking havoc and doing all the sweetest maneuvers doing it. Both systems have special characters and fluffy ways of building your squadrons, but there's something specifically satisfying about having lone ships just rip through the enemy lines without being touched (Soontir Fel, Whisper, Darth Vader, Tycho Celchu, Jake Farrell, that sort of thing). I don't think I would ever describe the pilot team of a large ship as aces despite them even potentially being the best at their jobs.
I was more thinking about aces embedded in squadrons like Luke or Wedge, etc.
.


However, I do get what you're saying about the "ace" feel in X-wing. Just as X-wing would have to imagine their dog fight being part of a larger fleet -v- fleet battle, Armada would have to imagine a dog fight happening between opposing squadrons (i.e. you don't have a dog fight but just roll dice for stands of fighters that just sit there, and move each squadron strength dials as you take/inflict losses).



Have you taken in the Imperial Raider for X-Wing? We still get massive ships that move uniquely and use totally different rules and even the same play area. Not to mention it comes with a TIE Advanced and some awesome pilots for it plus an absolute ton of rockin' upgrade cards. There's even still a large planning ahead factor to the X-Wing huge ships in that you have to plan your energy use; something I find way more thematic for big ships.
I haven't actually played either game. My gaming group was almost exclusively 40k. After a time (I played from the tail end of 2nd ed through the beginning of 6th), the group began to dwindle. Some got into warmachine/hordes, but I never really got into that (partly because I'm not a huge skirmish guy, and partly because of life chaos/business). With X-wing or Armada I would be looking to chart new ground and spark interest. Most of what I've done so far, has been to research online and watch youtube game reviews, game comparisons, & battle reports, etc.

While x-wing does have physically large ships, I was referring to the nostalgic feeling I get when seeing Star Destroyers on the big screen or on the table top. :)



This sounds like you want people to convince you to play Armada because that's the game you actually like.
---AND---
Again, it sounds like you just want to play Armada. What's really the point of this thread? :laugh:
Well based on what you and Fallen had said, I did come to the conclusion (at this point anyway) that Armada looks like it might be the game I want to play, but that X-wing looks like the game I can afford to play (both with time and money). However, to be fair, I did say that after looking at 4 categories (game type, playing time, scale, & start up cost) that things were tied 2 to 2.

Also, it sounds like you're pretty biased, and would take any answer other than my saying "I want to play X-wing," as my seriously not having considered both sides. :wink: Not a problem though. I asked you guys to "fight," and wanted people to truly tell me what they think. You've definitely been doing that, and I really appreciate it. Thank you! :)

You may not believe me, but I truly am open/torn at this point (i.e. thus my saying things were tied 2 to 2). X-wing has beautiful models, and fits within the financial and time constraints I have, but lacks the large capital ship fleet battles I would enjoy.



X-Wing will never have capital ships but there's still tons of fleet play, albeit at a higher financial and storage requirement.
Yeah, I was thinking about that. Having to transport/safely store even one large X-wing ship (much less several) looks like it would be both costly and a bummer.



Given that both systems are ever expanding and that Disney now has a hand in how it's released: there will always be more to buy.
Ha ha, so true. Disney is a marketing giant. I was more meaning that with these types of games you are always adding more models. As such, I was wondering if in the end, the total cost was about the same (even if the start up cost wasn't)?


Start proxying cards you want to try out for either system. Print them off (all available card's graphics are easily findable online, FFG doesn't hide their rules) or just write the effects down on a piece of paper, but don't fall into the trap of buying ships because they have absolutely key cards for certain ships (Starviper for Autothrusters and the K-Wing for Twin Laser Turret spring to mind, though they are both fun ships to play in my opinion).
I'm a huge fan of proxying/play testing before actually investing money. Probably because I have so little money. :) I have to save up for games like this. The good news? It gives me lots of time to research. :laugh:






@ R_Squared

TBH it does sound like you want to play Armada, but the initial cost and time investment is putting you off.
Yes, I think for the most part that's true. The model quality overall though is greater for X-wing. It really is a bummer to me that Armada fighters don't come pre-painted. However, overall, I really love capital ships and enjoy larger strategic table top games -vs- skirmish. My closest gaming buddy though, is leaning towards X-wing. So... things are still pretty open/up in the air for me. :)


I think the simplest question, and the most important one, is what is played locally?
Great question. A few years back my absolutely favorite FLGS (sadly) went under. There's another game store in town, but I've just never really connected with it. The owner's not too friendly, and while I probably shouldn't compare/give them a chance, it's just not the same. As such, most gaming is/has been with good friends. Currently neither X-wing or Armada is being played with those friends, and I would be striking new ground/hoping to spark interest. One of my closest friends though, is interested in launching into one of these two games with me. Right now he's leaning a slightly toward X-wing, but like me, is not 100% either.


I play x-wing, because all the local gamers play it. They also play Armada, but when I go down the club, I am much more likely to get an x-wing game.

Whats the most popular system locally, or are you lucky enough to be able to influence and drive forward a game system?
I have some influence. Years ago my close friend and I got everyone interested in 40K, but that was before GW became increasingly less customer friendly. I think people would be interested in playing either of these game systems if they started seeing them be played on the tabletop.






@ Creon

Armada is Strategic, X-wing Tactical. X-wing is much more dependent on card synergy tricks, and can be less fun sometimes because of that.
How so? Do you mean that card synergy lends itself to exploitation and cheesy power gaming, or do you mean it leads to complexity which really slows the game down, or something else?


Armada can be less fun depending on the size and composition of ships. The bigger ships sometimes get overwhelming.
Are you referring here to how many order disks they have/how far out in advance you have to plan?











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Haven't played Armada, so I can't make comparison.

I just felt like I needed to emphasise how cheap it can be to get into X-Wing, when I started I picked up a couple of boxed aggressors off of ebay for £35 ($50) and that was me done. Fleet - finished, and they're by no means the cheapest ships.

40k Is still the epic throw down gaming bread and butter of my group, but we wanted a Skirmish game and X-Wing has filled that niche nicely. It's even brought half a dozen new faces into the group. I've played a few larger team games of X-wing and had a blast too, though with only two ships that like facehugging asteroids I'm normally one of the first ones out xD

Overall, if you do decide you're looking for a reasonably priced skirmish game. then I thoroughly recommend X-wing, any maybe get a nice big canvas print of a star destroyer for the wall of your man cave?
 

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You've definitely been doing that, and I really appreciate it. Thank you!
No problem pal! I think it was the MK reference that got me. I got that KMFDM theme song from the movies stuck in my head and it was go time :laugh:

You've got the one type of player who's ready to go and moves quickly, and then you've got the type of player who takes forever to make their move/take their turn.
In every game really. I used to play a lot of timed chess matches so I got used to decision making on a clock, not everyone has had that experience or wants to play so fast paced.

How does squad building affect movement to make it so difficult?
Different ships fly very differently from one another; there's three basic tiers to ships in X-Wing.

1. Jouster - These ships tend to play in groups/swarms and want to mass shooting against an enemy to get things done. In some instances this can mean belligerently flying 7 TIE Fighters straight at the Millennium Falcon and stripping hulls as you slow move to Range 3 then get up at Range 1 (unless you're a master flyer and get all three ranges on a joust).

2. Turret - The name says it all really: 360 degree firing arc. It can shoot you all the time and doesn't much care if you're in its firing arc (the V on the front of the ship base) unless it's got sweet ordnance. This can be one of the hardest type of ships to down because there's no safe way to approach them without being fired at unless you're flying to mess with target priority/have Autothrusters on one or more of your ships.

As a bonus, there's several ships that have auxiliary arcs like the Firespray and Ghost. These ships aren't specifically 'turret' ships but can still unleash a nasty can of worms if you try to get behind them and chase them down.

3. Arc Dodger - This is where I typically draw my definition of a fighter Ace from. Ships that have boost and barrel roll actions and sweet dials, typically involving a 90 degree 1-speed turn and a host of green maneuvers to clear stress, fall into this category. These are the kind of ships that totally ruin the day of non-turret ships.

Essentially,

Jousters beat out Turrets (massed firepower)
Turrets beat out Arc Dodgers (how can you dodge a 360 arc)
Arc Dodgers beat out Jousters (formation flying can be very easy to predict and sidestep)

Though there's always exceptionally good or bad flying that balances everything out. Regardless and back to my point, these three types of ships want to do very different types of movements and you don't typically get good at them all at once. Plus the best lists have a balance of these three things in them as far as I'm concerned. Lists that go too hard in one category tend to get swept by the category that beats them.

However, I do get what you're saying about the "ace" feel in X-wing.
I get where you're coming from with Ace pilots still existing in Armada but you totally get where I'm coming from with wanting to manually control said aces.

If we were apologizing profusely to each other this would be what's called a Canadian Standoff :laugh:

I was referring to the nostalgic feeling I get when seeing Star Destroyers on the big screen or on the table top.
My girlfriend (spouse would be more appropriate at this point I think) really wanted to get into Armada because she wanted a friggin' Star Destroyer. When I got her the Raider for her Birthday last year every mention of Armada stopped :grin:

Having to transport/safely store even one large X-wing ship (much less several) looks like it would be a bummer/costly.
Oh man, nowhere near as bad as you think. Not only could you just leave them in their plastic packaging with an elastic band around to keep it shut and toss 'em in a bag (cheapzilla) but tackle boxes are clutch for this. I went the Battlefoam route and am happy with that but you don't need to spend much money on it.

In the end I was wondering if the total cost was about the same, even if the start up cost wasn't.
Ah, to be sure I have spent at least as much on my X-Wing collection as I have on any 40k army and I don't have many multiples. We are the variable in this query.

maybe get a nice big canvas print of a star destroyer for the wall of your man cave?
Not nerdy enough. Let's get a scale model to hang above the table, and we can play at night and pretend the moon is the Death Star! :laugh:

.....I'm only kind of joking.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I just felt like I needed to emphasise how cheap it can be to get into X-Wing, when I started I picked up a couple of boxed aggressors off of ebay for £35 ($50) and that was me done. Fleet - finished, and they're by no means the cheapest ships.
Yes, this for sure is one of the biggest draws for me. The ships are very well painted, and the game looks fun to play.


40k Is still the epic throw down gaming bread and butter of my group, but we wanted a Skirmish game and X-Wing has filled that niche nicely. It's even brought half a dozen new faces into the group.
With 40k nearly dead here (at least with my friends) I think either X-wing or Armada could take root. However, I think the lower buy in cost for x-wing would make it even easier to get it going. The X-wing starter box seems to give you everything you need to play the game. As I've been researching, I've heard that (supposedly) Armada's wave 1 box doesn't give you everything you need to play the game like X-wing's starter box does. Is that true? If so what is it missing, and where do you get the rest of what you need to play? Boy if true, that would be an additional drawback to a game that already costs more to get started.


I've played a few larger team games of X-wing and had a blast too, though with only two ships that like facehugging asteroids I'm normally one of the first ones out xD
As long as you're having fun right. :) My time is too limited to waste in anything that I'm not having fun with.


Overall, if you do decide you're looking for a reasonably priced skirmish game. then I thoroughly recommend X-wing, any maybe get a nice big canvas print of a star destroyer for the wall of your man cave?
Ha ha, marriage and 4 kids later, and my man cave has been reduced to a small hovel in one corner of the garage. I'd probably have room for a nice collector card of a Star Destroyer though... :)






@ ntaw

No problem pal! I think it was the MK reference that got me. I got that KMFDM theme song from the movies stuck in my head and it was go time
FINISH HIM!


In every game really. I used to play a lot of timed chess matches so I got used to decision making on a clock, not everyone has had that experience or wants to play so fast paced.
It's funny you should say that. I've thought many times I should invest in a chess timer to help games move along quicker. Nothing too obnoxious, but just something to keep things moving and prevent that one player from taking all night to think about/make their moves.


Different ships fly very differently from one another; there's three basic tiers to ships in X-Wing.
Thanks that helps a lot. I’d seen these different types being used in battle reports, but I didn’t have a recognizable category for them.


Essentially,

Jousters beat out Turrets (massed firepower)
Turrets beat out Arc Dodgers (how can you dodge a 360 arc)
Arc Dodgers beat out Jousters (formation flying can be very easy to predict and sidestep)
Makes sense. A lot of battle reports I saw seem to have players fielding either a turret with several jousters or an arc dodger with several jousters.


Though there's always exceptionally good or bad flying that balances everything out. Regardless and back to my point, these three types of ships want to do very different types of movements and you don't typically get good at them all at once.
Again, makes sense. I’m guessing the jousters are cheaper, nimbler, but not too hardy, while the turreted ships tend to be larger, slower, beefier, and less maneuverable? I'm also guessing that arc dodgers special pilots, upgrades, and maneuvers mean they coast a lot more and thus limit the number of ships you can field?


Plus the best lists have a balance of these three things in them as far as I'm concerned. Lists that go too hard in one category tend to get swept by the category that beats them.
Like so many tabletop games, you’ll need to have the ability to deal with whatever your opponent might field. Balance in this regard, will get you farther.


I get where you're coming from with Ace pilots still existing in Armada but you totally get where I'm coming from with wanting to manually control said aces.

If we were apologizing profusely to each other this would be what's called a Canadian Standoff :laugh:
Better than a Mexican Standoff where guns are involved. :laugh:


My girlfriend (spouse would be more appropriate at this point I think) really wanted to get into Armada because she wanted a friggin' Star Destroyer. When I got her the Raider for her Birthday last year every mention of Armada stopped :grin:
Ha ha, that’s great. I’m telling you, there’s just something nostalgic/exciting about being able to field a large, gray, pie shaped, harbinger of death and destruction. That and whenever you see one, the Imperial March starts automatically playing in your head.


Oh man, nowhere near as bad as you think. Not only could you just leave them in their plastic packaging with an elastic band around to keep it shut and toss 'em in a bag (cheapzilla) but tackle boxes are clutch for this. I went the Battlefoam route and am happy with that but you don't need to spend much money on it.
Transport was always my least favorite aspect to 40k. You buy the army, then buy materials to assemble, convert, and paint your army, and then buy foam, etc. to transport your army. With both X-wing and Armada being set up on a much smaller smaller scale, transporting ones forces didn’t seem so bad (not to mention expensive) to me. That is, until I saw the larger ships for X-wing. You invest so much money into a large model, you don’t want to see it get ruined. However, paying even more money for foam would make my already strained budget be stretched even thinner. I didn't think about continuing to use the original packaging though. Great idea. :good:


Ah, to be sure I have spent at least as much on my X-Wing collection as I have on any 40k army and I don't have many multiples. We are the variable in this query.
That’s what I was thinking. We gamers are notorious for wanting to collect, buy, and play with more and more models. As new models come out (if they’re cool) you know we're going to go buy them. When factoring this in, and if in the end the costs for both X-wing and Armada were approximately the same, then start up cost wouldn't be as big an issue for me.


Not nerdy enough. Let's get a scale model to hang above the table, and we can play at night and pretend the moon is the Death Star! :laugh:

.....I'm only kind of joking.
Indeed, you know this will happen. It's just a matter of time. You'll start off with a smaller scale death star to represent the space station being off in the distance, or maybe one of these...




But it won't be long before you're sucked in father…




and father...





:grin:









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As I've been researching, I've heard that (supposedly) Armada's wave 1 box doesn't give you everything you need to play the game like X-wing's starter box does. Is that true? If so what is it missing, and where do you get the rest of what you need to play? Boy if true, that would be an additional drawback to a game that already costs more to get started.
The armada starter box (which comes with a Corvette, a Nebulon-B, and a Victory + some fighters for each side) leans pretty heavily on the Imperials - also got the individual ships didn't help too much to change the fact

Wave 2 gave us the Gladiator and the Assault Frigate Mk2 - which gave the Rebels their first "front line" ship, the nebulons and corvettes are very glass-hammery, and gave the imperials probably their most efficient ship in the gladiator.

Wave 3 brought us the Imperial Star Destroyer, Raider, the MC 80 (Ackbar) and the MC 30 - this wave brought out both heavy hitters for both sides (probably give the edge with the Rebels) an anti-fighter/corvette ship for the Imperials, which is nice - not super amazing - and the MC 30 which is probably the best small ship in the game, getting a pair of these for the rebels is probably the best thing to do for them ATM if one was planning on building a pure Rebel fleet with no Imperials.

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For X-wing...the "it's only $15" is kinda a potential thing that you gotta worry about. However Storage is kinda easy.

one of those holds

6 TIEs
3 Interceptors
1 Bomber
2 Advanced
(soon to be a 2nd bomber and a Defender)

2 A-Wings
2 B-Wings
2 X-Wings
2 7-Wings
1 Hawk

3 Z-95s
1 Starviper
1 Outrider/YT2400
1 Slave 1/Firespray

The top holds all of my dice, tokens, etc.

I have a second "bottom" the I use to carry my movement "trays" for the ships, damage deck, upgrade cards - soo many upgrade cards - and the card decks for the 3 factions (Rebels, Imperials, Scum)
 

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I've thought many times I should invest in a chess timer to help games move along quicker.
They're more expensive than you might think for an OK one. I'd just get an app on a tablet/smart phone and see if that could do before spending my money getting people to play faster.

I’m guessing the jousters are cheaper, nimbler, but not too hardy, while the turreted ships tend to be larger, slower, beefier, and less maneuverable? I'm also guessing that arc dodgers special pilots, upgrades, and maneuvers mean they coast a lot more and thus limit the number of ships you can field?
Yes and no, there's always exceptions to the rule. Jousting ships can get expensive (named pilots, upgrades) and arc dodgers can be big too (Dash Rendar dans le YT-2400) and cheap (generic A-Wing and Interceptor pilots), but you are mostly on point with those assertions.

Balance in this regard, will get you farther.
Some of my favourite lists are weird balances of the three tiers and some completely ignore them. Probably my most effective one is the YV-666 (Jouster with bonus 180 degree arc) and two Twin Laser Turret Y-Wings (very consistent but slow damage in a 360 degree arc). I don't know how well it would hold up in a tournament, but it's beaten some netlists flown by competent players so far. I also really like running full on arc dodger lists, though those only work out well when I'm having good flying days.

When factoring this in, and if in the end the costs for both X-wing and Armada were approximately the same, then start up cost wouldn't be as big an issue for me.
I know cost is a big thing for any hobby, but you've gotta enjoy what you spend your money on. If Armada is what you're into and there's no precedent in the group, get that and start with it. If the group takes to it but wants to skirmish as well then they can pick up some X-Wing stuff. You can always borrow their ships just like they will borrow yours for games at the beginning and if you like it go from there.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
The armada starter box (which comes with a Corvette, a Nebulon-B, and a Victory + some fighters for each side) leans pretty heavily on the Imperials - also got the individual ships didn't help too much to change the fact
Yeah the Nebulon B doesn’t look like it can take much of a pounding. While its long range fire power seems decent for a ship of its size, it doesn’t look like it’s easy to keep your front arc pointed at the enemy and still be able to keep your distance. Especially if your enemy really wants to close with you. Now mind you I haven’t played myself, but it seems like it would be hard after watching battle reports on youtube.


Wave 2 gave us the Gladiator and the Assault Frigate Mk2 - which gave the Rebels their first "front line" ship, the nebulons and corvettes are very glass-hammery, and gave the imperials probably their most efficient ship in the gladiator.
Efficient because of their firepower to cost, to maneuverability, to survivability ratio, or something else?


Wave 3 brought us the Imperial Star Destroyer, Raider, the MC 80 (Ackbar) and the MC 30 - this wave brought out both heavy hitters for both sides (probably give the edge with the Rebels) an anti-fighter/corvette ship for the Imperials, which is nice - not super amazing - and the MC 30 which is probably the best small ship in the game, getting a pair of these for the rebels is probably the best thing to do for them ATM if one was planning on building a pure Rebel fleet with no Imperials.
The raider seems to be more appealing for it’s speed as an objective grabber, while the MC 30’s have impressive firepower (especially when paired with Admiral Ackbar) who gives them 2 extra red dice on their side arcs.



For X-wing...the "it's only $15" is kinda a potential thing that you gotta worry about.
What do you mean? Are you saying it’s easy to keep adding ships and therefore rack up the cost of your total investment? If so I can totally see what you mean. I think that while the start up cost favors X-wing, in the end (because you'll keep adding new ships) the cost will probably pretty similar between the two.


Nice, thanks for the link! :good:






@ ntaw:

They're more expensive than you might think for an OK one. I'd just get an app on a tablet/smart phone and see if that could do before spending my money getting people to play faster.
Great idea on the app. Although physically being able to hit the timer putting your opponent on the clock would be fun. :grin:


Some of my favourite lists are weird balances of the three tiers and some completely ignore them. Probably my most effective one is the YV-666 (Jouster with bonus 180 degree arc) and two Twin Laser Turret Y-Wings (very consistent but slow damage in a 360 degree arc). I don't know how well it would hold up in a tournament, but it's beaten some netlists flown by competent players so far.
It seems like this is a real strength for X-wing. It’s having been out longer makes the sheer number of combinations you can field/face much greater than Armada. Although I imagine Armada will catch up some with each new wave they release.


I also really like running full on arc dodger lists, though those only work out well when I'm having good flying days.
”Good flying days?” You mean when all the dice roll your way?


I know cost is a big thing for any hobby, but you've gotta enjoy what you spend your money on. If Armada is what you're into and there's no precedent in the group, get that and start with it. If the group takes to it but wants to skirmish as well then they can pick up some X-Wing stuff. You can always borrow their ships just like they will borrow yours for games at the beginning and if you like it go from there.
Yes, so true. I’ve been talking with my good friend who’s been thinking about starting a squadron or fleet for one of these game systems, and we’re in agreement, both games have considerable appeal. I do think either would (forgive my pun) take off with the rest of our friends.

For grins and giggles I did some price comparisons, and while this doesn’t reflect having shopped around to find the best price, it does represent the average price range for most things. I know the starting buy in cost for each starter set favors X-wing considerably, but was wondering if after filling out your squadrons/fleets if the cost would be comparable.


First up, the basic costs…

X-Wing
$30.00 - 35.00 … For the X-wing starter box (includes an X-wing, 2 Ties, dice, etc.)

$10.00 - 15.00 … For single ships like other X-wings, Y-wings, or Ties, etc.

$20.00 - 30.00 … For medium sized ships like the Millennium Falcon or Slave 1

$25.00 – 40.00 … For multiple ship expansion packs

65.00 - 70.00 … For the really large ships like the Corellian Corvette or Imperial Raider


Armada
$65.00 - 70.00 … For the Armada core set (includes a Victory Class SD, several Tie squadrons, a Nebulon B Assault Frigate, a Corellian Corvette, several X-wing squadrons, dice, etc .)

$10.00 - 15.00 … For a single small to medium sized ship like the Rebel Nebulon B Frigate, MC30 Frigate, Corellian Corvette, or Imperial Raider, etc.

$15.00 –ish … For a fighter squadron (imperial or rebel), or the Rogues & Villains expansion pack

$20.00 - 30.00 … For a single large ship like the Imperial Gladiator or Victory class SD, or the Rebel Assault Frigate Mk. 2, or a Mon Calamari “Home One” Star Cruiser (MC80)

$30.00 - $35.00 … For an Imperial Class Star Destroyer



Next up, building a solid starting squadrons/fleets for each system…

X-Wing
Starter box ($32.50) + the Falcon & Slave 1 ($50.00) + 4 smaller ships (2 for each side = $50.00).

Total cost? $132.50

This would give you what you needed to play the game + two sizable forces per side. You’d have an X-wing, the Millennium Falcon, + 2 other small fighter sized ships for the Rebels, and 2 Tie fighters, Slave 1, + 2 other small fighter sized ships for the Empire. *As an alternative, you could also swap out the medium ships (the Falcon & Slave 1) for two smaller ships each and end up having a total of 5-6 small ships for each side. Most games I’ve seen played online were with opposing squadrons about this size.


Armada
Core box ($67.50) + a larger ship for each side ($50.00) and a small ship for each side ($25.00).

Total cost? $142.50

This would give you what you needed to play the game + two sizable forces per side. You’d have a Rebel Assault frigate Mk. 2, a Nebulon B Assault Frigate, a Corellian Corvette, a MC30 Frigate, and several squadrons of X-wings for the Rebels, and a Victory Class Star Destroyer, a Gladiator Class Star Destroyer, an Imperial Raider, and several squadrons of Tie Fighters for the Empire. Again online, this seemed to be about the size of most battles I watched…


In the end, the cost is approximately $132.50 -vs- $142.50. So while the cost for the initial box set favors X-wing, I think the final costs for either game will end up being pretty comparable.

I should add that I wasn’t going for competitive lists, but more putting together an average sized starting squadron or fleet to get an overall idea of cost.









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Although I imagine Armada will catch up some with each new wave they release.
...and X-Wing will stay ahead with every new release just the same :grin:

”Good flying days?” You mean when all the dice roll your way?
Not even close, relying on dice in this game is an incredibly flawed strategy. I literally mean moving my ships better than usual (getting all my turns right and not hitting crap), anticipating my opponent effectively, and keeping the shit out of arc so that I have all the time I need to get hits through without being shot at. There's more of a chance of a blank dice result than there is of getting a 1 on a D6, it happens SO OFTEN. Not to mention the attack dice are actually made to get better results than the evade dice (one more blank on the green and one less evade result than number of hit/crit results). Dice luck is great and all, but I'd rather try to fly so good that I could roll blanks almost the whole game and still come out on top.
 
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