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nice boy, daft though !
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I was having a conversation the other day about the recent Robotec Kick starter, and it struck me that i went and backed it without really considering who i will get to play it with, i rarely get to play 40k or warhammer due to life commitments as it is.

Anyway long story short, with the advent of kickstarter and the rise of other wargames companies it got me thinking about player availability, back in the day when i was a more proactive gamer getting a game was relatively simple, my friends played pretty much anything GW produced or the local club catered for things like 15mm ancients, Napoleonic,Battletec or starfleet battles and some MTG, but the choice was fairly limited by the market, now it seems we are spoiled for choice and the choice of games seems to grow every week, so is this a good thing? have you backed a kick starter without thinking about getting a game? have you bought a rule book and minis and cant find an opponent in your area? do you plan what games you want to play with your gaming group?

whats your experience of this new "Golden Era" of choice? do you think the vast number of alternative games influenced GW to can "specialist games".



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I think it's great. More and more people are getting into wargaming so we don't all look like losers :p

Ultimately, warhammer fans will stick with warhammer, and hopefully it'll make GW think about their recent business practises and change them for the better to suit this new competition.
 

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I suppose it depends on how open minded your gaming group is, I've seen a few games on KS that look like great fun and I would love to give them a go, just I'm not part of a gaming group any more, I could play against my daughter but she beats me at everything!

I think the growing market is a good thing, there's never anything wrong with choice and the more games there are out there to choose from the less reason there is to moan about the game that brought us all here.

My main issue with kick starters is companies like Mantic, they're supposed to be an established company, what's wrong with them investing their own money into something? As far as I'm aware its not what Kick Starter or indigogo was started for and I do find it annoying that the whole crowd funding arena is being swamped by companies that have the money to take the risks on their own.

Its just a matter of time before we see how kickstarter affects the wargaming world, how many of these new games actually manage to exist beyond their start up campaigns and whether any of them become real competition to the big players like GW or Privateer Press. Competition in the market is a good thing, I just hope at least some of these new games are good enough and people are open minded enough for them to be successful.

So, what I think I'm trying to say in a rambling round about sort of way is, yes I think new games and new competition is a good thing, I just wish I had someone to play with.
 

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I have a dedicated games room and a nifty group of friends who pop over every other weekend and game. We play board games, rpgs etc etc.

What we found was that the games we struggle to get into the most is wargames. Infinity, Flames of War, Warmahordes, Mobile Frame 0 etc etc. Even Heroclix could qualify for this i guess. We try them but dont stick around long because of time investment issues. So in a way, yeah there are too many games because you really have to decide which game you want to commit too. I already have a gigantic back-log of chaos stuff and adding another squad from x system would just be another drop in the ocean.

What I would argue is that I find is that there are too few players of alternative games, especially outside weekend clubs, and even then people tend to resist change. I think ive found maybe 2 clubs that operate mid-week and another two on weekends, out of say around a pool of 80 people, around 10 of them play w
warmahordes, about 12 play fantasy and the rest focus on 40k. I honestly know only 1 dystopian wars player and im the only A Call to Arms / Firestorm armada player.

Personally im guessing this is due to locational demographics, afterall from what I hear, in the States its easier to find different groups and sources for alternative games than the Uk
 

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I think the problem is not the selection of wargames, but the cost behind them. I personally love kickstarter even for an established company like Mantic, because they're in essence giving you the chance to buy into a new game at basement prices. You could feasibly right now spend $150 and have enough models to play Kill Team/40k Mordheim for the rest of your life... and based on other recent threads, that's the exact reason why GW is closing down specialist games, because the low buy-in cost makes it unprofitable to them... Once you have a warband at that value you never need to keep buying.

On the flip side, as more games come out and reach full cost, alot of people don't have the finances to keep buying in as more comes out. I've been building my Thousand Sons army for something like 5 years now in dribs and drabs... As kickstarters come out I have often considered dropping 40k for other games that I can buy in to cheaper and fear new army rewrites less.
 

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What we found was that the games we struggle to get into the most is wargames. Infinity, Flames of War, Warmahordes, Mobile Frame 0 etc etc. Even Heroclix could qualify for this i guess. We try them but dont stick around long because of time investment issues. So in a way, yeah there are too many games because you really have to decide which game you want to commit too. I already have a gigantic back-log of chaos stuff and adding another squad from x system would just be another drop in the ocean.
I think this is where a lot of skirmish level games come into their own, a small investment to begin with, its often not impossible to get two factions and then you're set to go, just find someone who's willing to spend an hour or so playing a new game. If they like the game they pick up a faction of their own and things develop from there.

The problem is people are used to playing 40K, big armies and all that, they've probably spent a lot of time building and painting, getting lists done and what not. But playing a new game doesn't have to be at the expense of playing your old favourites.

Take video games as an example, I love Gears of War, I also love the Final Fantasy series, I have invested an awful lot of time into both. I don't have to give up playing either just because GTA V is due out, I'll just play that too.

I've invested a lot of time effort and money into 40K over the years, if someone offered me a game of Carnevale I wouldn't just throw all my CSM in the bin, it would just be an addition to what I already do, something different.
 

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U Mad Bro?
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I find that there are too many games. They always seem to be similar to one another with very slight differences. I appreciate that there is no choice in the matter due to copyright and all that nonsense. I think if GW was smart they could maybe hire some game designers that put out specialist games have them write the rules etc. and better their specialist games instead of canning them.

I personally would not back random games. You are not saving yourself any money by purchasing their bundles. I categorize these "kick starters" under the 'used car salesmen approach. They just want to move as much product as fast as possible and then deal with the lash back, or poor rules, poor quality, etc. after they have most of your money.
 

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Dazed and confused.
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The more the merrier. I have models for 40k, Necromunda, Inquisitor, Flames of War, Mordheim, and am seriously contemplating jumping into Dead Man's Hand, the new Old West skirmish game. The guys I game with have WarmaHordes, Infinity, Saga, Battle Group Kursk, WFB, Leviathon and X Wing amongst others. While it's 40k and FoW that would be dominant, the others get a run out every now and then, and it helps keep things a bit fresh.

The one thing I've noticed about all the new systems though is that they all seem to have models compatible with the monster that is 40k. I'm sure that this is no coincidence, as 40k gamers is were the big bucks are at, but the only new system I've seen that seems to be a completely new system with totally dedicated models is Drop Zone Commander.
 

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There can never be too many games. The more choice the more competition for existing companies. This will push them to make their games better. Do you really think GW would be working so hard to put out regular updates each month if they were not feeling the press at the edges from other companies?

My problem is more that I have enough trouble finding time to play games at all, and this limits my want to try new games out. When I was younger and had no real responsibility we gamed pretty much every night, but now everyone is older and moved far away from each other. So I am resigned to a virtual PnP game and a single 40k game on the weekends.
 

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There can never be too many games. The more choice the more competition for existing companies. This will push them to make their games better. Do you really think GW would be working so hard to put out regular updates each month if they were not feeling the press at the edges from other companies?
This is about right for me - I don't think a bit of competition is ever a bad thing, if makes people work to stay on top of the pack and stops anybody from becoming complacent. I think we're already seeing the effects of this with GW making a big push to get the various army books and codexes up to date for both main games systems - I think people seeing how PP dealt with the Mark 2 release, and all factions being updated immediately, is a big part of that. It's changed customer's expectations about how things 'need' to be done. If GW could be persuaded that unit stat cards in minis boxes were a good thing and that even with that people would still pay a premium for a good quality army book, then I'd be even happier.

I have bought into some things because I liked the look of them, or liked a demo game I've played, and have found myself without opponents (Firestorm Armada). There are also games I've held back from buying no matter how much I like the models because I know I'd be in that position (Malifaux is the one that springs to mind)... the tipping point in that decision is the initial buy-in in both price and time - I could get a FA starter fleet for £30, and the ruleook for about £12, so the cost of some initial starter stuff that I liked the look of wasn't a big deal, plus the models are simple to put together and don't demand much in the way of fancy paint jobs... Malifaux is similar in cost, but I'd be more likely to want to buy more stuff, and the assembly and painting would be a bigger deal. I got into X-Wing, and immediately dropped a hundred quid on starters and extra ships, but was happy to do so because there's no prep time to start playing beyond punching out the card bits.

So yeah, for me it can go either way - make a game with a low entry point, or with a low time investment needed, and I'm more likely to put some money in speculatively... the high buy-in price and time investment is what consistently holds me back from starting back into WFB, for example, even though I know I could get a game pretty easily.
 

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in one word "no"
in more then one word - there does seem a large influx over the past tenish years but I fully expect some to bugger off and things to balance out a little more
 

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DA GOLDEN WAAAGH
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I think i agree with the original post there are many games which is a good thing but finding players is hard, even for 40k my local community have few players who are few and far between from what i can see the less popular or established games have even fewer making them near impossible to play unless your group gets behind it and begins to play them
 

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I think I am pretty lucky. My regular club are very good at picking good games to play outside of 40k. We have regular players of Malifaux, 40k, WHF, bloodbowl and Warmahordes. There are also games of 7TV, Bolt Action and X-wing some weeks.

Too many games? No I don't think so, but there are definitely too many games for one person to play. I have been a 40k for so long with a few other specialist games thrown in, but I have not played other systems, just because of the time, but I think I am going to give Bolt Action a go. With new plastic figures the buy in is pretty small and being a totally different style of play to 40k it will just spread my gaming wings a bit.
 

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U Mad Bro?
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I think I am pretty lucky. My regular club are very good at picking good games to play outside of 40k. We have regular players of Malifaux, 40k, WHF, bloodbowl and Warmahordes. There are also games of 7TV, Bolt Action and X-wing some weeks.

Too many games? No I don't think so, but there are definitely too many games for one person to play. I have been a 40k for so long with a few other specialist games thrown in, but I have not played other systems, just because of the time, but I think I am going to give Bolt Action a go. With new plastic figures the buy in is pretty small and being a totally different style of play to 40k it will just spread my gaming wings a bit.
That's the way to do it. The group as a whole looks into games and come to an agreement on one which they all try. This is what my group did with X-Wing. We all liked it enough to read up on the rules and how it plays, then bought models to actually well... play... lol!

I still think there are too many games appearing far to quickly for any one person, but as long as you are not tossing money at each new shiny box of figs and picking a game that the group will enjoy it can still work.
 

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Like a Bawss
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Most of the local places I've been too seem as saturated as they will be with regards to wargaming. In Alabama, it was solely 40K and Warmahordes. In Oklahoma, solely 40K and WHF. In Georgia, 40K, WHF, Dystopian Wars, and Flames of War. I've never seen another game played, which is a shame as there are a ton of other cool looking games out there. I'd love to get into other stuff, but can't justify backing many of the kickstarters since many of them aren't really proxy-able or I can't remotely guarantee I'll be able to use them.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Interesting question. Before I answer said question, let me ask you this: Can one have too many toys?
 
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