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Discussion Starter #1
They just seem like an obvious rip off from "HellRaiser" now with Fulgrim being pinhead. It is not that I dislike the way they are written, and I honestly can't think of a better way to represent a Chaos 'pleasure' god... but it really isn't original.

Or is it? Was the original Warhammer concept of the 4 chaos gods before or after 'Hellraiser'? Not sure who ripped off who, but I think it is safe to say it is the same idea.
 

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I dont understand how Fulgrim=pinhead. Did you mean Angron of the World Eaters because of the Butcher's Nails? Honestly, there is nothing between Pinhead and 40K that you can compare one another or say they are taken from one or the other.
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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I think he's referring to the more sadistic aspects of the Cenobites, and their ability to inflict pleasure as well as pain to their more debauched victims.
 

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Bane of Empires
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Just because different settings/plots/stories/franchises have relatable characters/plots/circumstances/elements doesn't mean one has ripped off the other one, far from it.
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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Agreed. Point in fact, the Cenobites' M.O. is not to secure their own pleasure, per se, but to inflict punishment on those who go too far in their own searches for enlightenment. They may very well be what an Emperor's Child of the more generic mould (sadomasochism, reveling in extremes of pain and pleasure, etc.) might want to encounter, but I don't think they're alike to a degree where one seems like the other.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I am reading "Angel Exterminatus" right now and Fabius seems to really get off on taunting (who I assume is) Eidelon. He says something like "You will both curse me and praise me in equal measure because I will bring you to new heights both of pleasure and pain".

Just the way they have deformed themselves they even look like cenobites.

Looking it up through wiki it seems that Warhammer beat out Hellraiser by a year. The first Warhammer stuff came out in 86, Hellraiser came out in 87.
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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'Hellraiser' came out with that material from day one, though, and was based on earlier material (a novel, I believe) by Clive Barker. By contrast, it wasn't until several years later that the Emperor's Children were properly fleshed out as hedonists in service to Slaanesh.

Either way, though, I honestly think you're latching on to rather superficial connections. Again, the biggest one that I can think of is that the Cenobites themselves act as an agency of punishment. The Emperor's Children are about self-gratification. The Cenobites do their thing others. The Emperor's Children exist for those things to happen to them. Those are two completely different things, and the fact that the Children mutilate themselves in a way that is vaguely reminiscent of the Cenobite mode (which is varied to a considerably different degree, and generally meant to mimic the way they kill/torture) doesn't really make them that similar. :(
 

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Emperor Childrens are Cenobites, hedonists, rapists, murderers and sadists - nothing will change that. Anyway as a hedonist myself - its much appreciated to have excess in all, you dont need caution, patience etc.etc. An much better then to be a servant of Grand Daddy Nurgle or Great Liar Tzeench or idiotic blood maniac Khorne - what could they provide - dull senses - meh. The true love is shown only for the true hedonists in cenobite mode - Emperor children :biggrin:
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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You're right. The Emperor's Children are exactly like the Cenobites. They spend inordinate amounts of time hanging out in the Eye of Terror, waiting patiently for some idiot or another to either visit them there or to summon them for a specific ritual. Until then, they behave in a very composed, quiet manner. They of course reserve their penchant for "pain and pleasure" for their victims. :wink:

The problem is, that's not the Emperor's Children at all. They have the complete opposite mentality from that of the Cenobites. The Emperor's Children seek out extremes of pleasure and pain. They search for those experiences, so that they can experience them. The Cenobites exist to inflict them on others.

That's a huge, huge difference and superficial similarities in terms of self-inflicted mutilation doesn't bring them anywhere near one another...
 

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You're right. The Emperor's Children are exactly like the Cenobites. They spend inordinate amounts of time hanging out in the Eye of Terror, waiting patiently for some idiot or another to either visit them there or to summon them for a specific ritual. Until then, they behave in a very composed, quiet manner. They of course reserve their penchant for "pain and pleasure" for their victims.The problem is, that's not the Emperor's Children at all. They have the complete opposite mentality from that of the Cenobites. The Emperor's Children seek out extremes of pleasure and pain. They search for those experiences, so that they can experience them. The Cenobites exist to inflict them on others.
- You have a very good point here Phoebus. Anyway the Noise Marines are awesome, and strangely the most awesome are written by McNeil (his last novels are bad - but his description of Marius and his Cacophony are delightful)
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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Eh, I've never been a fan - but that's just my opinion.

 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Still reading "Angel Exterminatus", and just got to the part where they shoot Fulgrim in the head. That shit rocks! We all know the story (that he lives), but still. Reminds me of the 'last' 'Friday the 13th' from the early 90s. It starts out with Jason chasing some teenager through the woods, except she leads him into an ambush and suddenly spotlights come on and the army is there shooting Jason up. Jason takes the shots, but than they call in artillery and blow him up. That was the first 5 min. of the movie, and the movie would have rocked if they would have kept it that short and uncerminoniously sweet with Jason being truly dead.

I am not saying I dislike Fulgrim, normal or chaos version. But him throwing a hissy fit because Pert says something during his theatrics makes him the one female Primarch. He is like the RuPaul of Chaos, and lets face it... wouldn't anyone want to shoot RuPaul with a needle gun?

McNeil writing that he could beat Angron in a fight... pfft. They can write it any way they want, but I say they have to start the fight with Fulgrim threatening Angron "I'll scratch your eyes out!"
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Still reading "Angel Exterminatus", and just got to the part where they shoot Fulgrim in the head. That shit rocks! We all know the story (that he lives), but still. Reminds me of the 'last' 'Friday the 13th' from the early 90s. It starts out with Jason chasing some teenager through the woods, except she leads him into an ambush and suddenly spotlights come on and the army is there shooting Jason up. Jason takes the shots, but than they call in artillery and blow him up. That was the first 5 min. of the movie, and the movie would have rocked if they would have kept it that short and uncerminoniously sweet with Jason being truly dead.

I am not saying I dislike Fulgrim, normal or chaos version. But him throwing a hissy fit because Pert says something during his theatrics makes him the one female Primarch. He is like the RuPaul of Chaos, and lets face it... wouldn't anyone want to shoot RuPaul with a needle gun?

McNeil writing that he could beat Angron in a fight... pfft. They can write it any way they want, but I say they have to start the fight with Fulgrim threatening Angron "I'll scratch your eyes out!"
 
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