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74 Posts
Doing this from the phone so forgive anything I may have missed. I just got a Text from a buddy that works at my LFGS telling me that GW is doing away with Ard Boyz Tourney. Anyone else hear about this?
Ard Boyz No More?
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435 Posts
Good riddence.
'Ard Boyz was nothing but poison that only fostered the idea of playing beatstick lists and ruthlessly crushing your opponent as harshly as possible. Thus leading to endless wonky RAW arguments in order to break the rules as much as possible in order to simply win.
Not to mention it was the death of painting and led to masses of sprue-grey & pewter-white armies, sometimes half assembled and a non-stop arms race to find the outright 'best' list and/or 'most competitive' army.
Maybe the local store will finally see well balanced & themed armies for the first time in 3+ years?!
'Ard Boyz was nothing but poison that only fostered the idea of playing beatstick lists and ruthlessly crushing your opponent as harshly as possible. Thus leading to endless wonky RAW arguments in order to break the rules as much as possible in order to simply win.
Not to mention it was the death of painting and led to masses of sprue-grey & pewter-white armies, sometimes half assembled and a non-stop arms race to find the outright 'best' list and/or 'most competitive' army.
Maybe the local store will finally see well balanced & themed armies for the first time in 3+ years?!
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Damn 3000 points of the army of your choice for placing top in the semis... Thats pretty sick :shok:
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1,457 Posts
Hmmm...
Unpainted armies have plagued this hobby since the day I started (years before 'ard boyz format even excisted in 1996).
And cheesy lists were nothing new back in those days either. Aaaaaah, the good old days of herohammer... No wait.... They sucked and the game is a much healthier state right now.
Don't blame a tourney format for these types of things! They have been around for years!
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1,195 Posts
This is disappointing if it is true. I had some of my best games ever during Ard' Boyz. Best because they were honest games where we beat the living hell out of friends and amazingly epic things happened. Almost no one got mad, almost no one was a prick. Pretty much everyone there encouraged their opponents and wished them the best before stomping them face-first into the curb (in-game of course). I liked it because of the point size. There have always been great armies year-to-year and most of them were complete and painted, although mine never were... I hope it sticks around...
I am glad they are putting away the 'Ard Boyz tourney away. I have visited a lot of GW stores during the season watching some games when I was 12. The crap they put in the lists is astonishing. Everybody cared nothing for the actual game and did all they could to win. Some years I couldn't hear myself think about my own game with the people next to me going at it about RAW. This tournament in my head basically waves a sign around saying, "Hey! Have a list that everybody hates you for? Wanna take the fun out of the game? Come play with us! You are surrounded by no one else but your own kind!" It sickened me. Sure power players have always existed. Beatstick lists have always existed. With the Ard boyz tourney, it was people like that to have an excuse besides "I wanna win so I am going to bring this bat of an army and swing away". I personally enjoy tournaments, I have done Adepticon since I was 10. At least that has some control over how people play. Ard however, it was just a shit sandwhich. Good riddance.
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5,539 Posts
I'm honestly sort of disgusted to see so many people on the net (especially Dakka) dancing on Ard Boyz' grave.
The one GW sponsored event per year where competitive gamers could get together and enjoy playing the game their way and somehow it was a travesty that was destroying the hobby... even for people that didn't attend. I'll never understand it. If you're not into highly competitive play, unpainted armies, optimized lists, huge games and so on then don't attend. It's only once a year, I'm sure casuals could have handled a couple weeks of people testing lists but as ever if it isn't scrubby it's not acceptable to the majority of the community.
Fuck this hobby and community, it makes me sick.
The one GW sponsored event per year where competitive gamers could get together and enjoy playing the game their way and somehow it was a travesty that was destroying the hobby... even for people that didn't attend. I'll never understand it. If you're not into highly competitive play, unpainted armies, optimized lists, huge games and so on then don't attend. It's only once a year, I'm sure casuals could have handled a couple weeks of people testing lists but as ever if it isn't scrubby it's not acceptable to the majority of the community.
Fuck this hobby and community, it makes me sick.
I never did well in them but they are popular and are needed for the segment of the hobby that likes them. I will say one other important thing about them,,,,I always learned something during them. They forced me to want to be a better player not just a painter. Even though some people disliked them....think about the way you would feel if GW did away with casual play. It is ridicules but that may be how the Ard boys followers feel about their tourney system.
Doc
Doc
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I'm not really surprised that GW threw the towel in where 'Ard Boyz was concerned. There was a LOT of fraud where qualifying was concerned, and GW clearly didn't want to invest in making a functional system for that kind of tournament to be handled by the sales reps that results were reported to. Certainly, locally, we weren't planning on running 'Ard Boyz this year anyway, even if it was scheduled, because the last couple years, our GW regional sales rep we were required to submit results to didn't bother turning them in to whoever he needed to give them to so people could attend the next round. The whole thing just caused problems administratively.
And if that weren't enough, 'Ard Boyz seemed to draw out the absolute worst of the hobby. The most socially maladjusted, cantankerous individuals crept out of the woodwork to come play, viewing it as a license to be an asshole without consequence and collect prize support. Certainly, that was my experience running the event for several years, and other tournament organizers in the region had similar feelings on the subject-- even TOs who typically host much more cut-throat, competitive events.
There is a need to have this kind of tournament, I think, because there are people who play the game but have no interest in the hobby...which I've always found strange, since frankly, there are better developed and balanced games out there, which are cheaper to participate in and in some cases have much larger dedicated competitive circuits. Part of the appeal of games like 40k and Fantasy is supposed to be the hobby element, after all. That being said, I think Games Workshop has realized that a lot of people ignored their guidelines on running Rogue Trader Tournaments (having a balanced combination of game score, hobby score, and sportsmanship; or game score and hobby score without sportsmanship) anyway, and people were functionally just using 'Ard Boyz rules regardless of the event. I know painting scores and sportsmanship scores are increasingly uncommon, and where they do still exist, they exist as an afterthought to the result of games.
Purely as a sales tool, I'm a little surprised Games Workshop doesn't want to continue to at least half-ass it the way they have for years now. The higher points values mean that tournament players who don't normally keep more than 1850-2000 points of a given army end up spending an extra $75-$150 adding another powerful unit or two to their army for the sake of a single event. And those players often buy a new army every year, because a new army is the "most" competitive every year. So it's a nice little sales spike leading up to those events.
And if that weren't enough, 'Ard Boyz seemed to draw out the absolute worst of the hobby. The most socially maladjusted, cantankerous individuals crept out of the woodwork to come play, viewing it as a license to be an asshole without consequence and collect prize support. Certainly, that was my experience running the event for several years, and other tournament organizers in the region had similar feelings on the subject-- even TOs who typically host much more cut-throat, competitive events.
There is a need to have this kind of tournament, I think, because there are people who play the game but have no interest in the hobby...which I've always found strange, since frankly, there are better developed and balanced games out there, which are cheaper to participate in and in some cases have much larger dedicated competitive circuits. Part of the appeal of games like 40k and Fantasy is supposed to be the hobby element, after all. That being said, I think Games Workshop has realized that a lot of people ignored their guidelines on running Rogue Trader Tournaments (having a balanced combination of game score, hobby score, and sportsmanship; or game score and hobby score without sportsmanship) anyway, and people were functionally just using 'Ard Boyz rules regardless of the event. I know painting scores and sportsmanship scores are increasingly uncommon, and where they do still exist, they exist as an afterthought to the result of games.
Purely as a sales tool, I'm a little surprised Games Workshop doesn't want to continue to at least half-ass it the way they have for years now. The higher points values mean that tournament players who don't normally keep more than 1850-2000 points of a given army end up spending an extra $75-$150 adding another powerful unit or two to their army for the sake of a single event. And those players often buy a new army every year, because a new army is the "most" competitive every year. So it's a nice little sales spike leading up to those events.
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5,182 Posts
Maybe GW have taken a company wide approach to torunaments. For the last couple of years the UK head office 'tournament' is not so much about seeing who is best, but a get together of like minded players for a weekedn of gaming. Im not defending this , but my perception is an attempt to move away for hard core tournament play.
I cannot comment on the demise of 'ard boyz as I have neve attended one, but was it really a cheese fest? It does not sound like a fun weekend if you don't bring an uber list of beardyness. I suppose you were at the wrong event if you didn't bring a power build with extra power units added on.
I cannot comment on the demise of 'ard boyz as I have neve attended one, but was it really a cheese fest? It does not sound like a fun weekend if you don't bring an uber list of beardyness. I suppose you were at the wrong event if you didn't bring a power build with extra power units added on.
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7,314 Posts
There's always been two competing factions within GW, one pushing for competitive play and one for casual hobby play. The competitive play element gives you things the Chaos Space Marine codex (I'm not talking about power level but structure), the Casual play element gives you all those rules that don't quite work but you're all friends so you'll get along.
Right now 40K is no suitable for competitive play really, the rules just don't quite work well enough and no one seems to ever playtest the scenarios they pick. I'm sure after 6th end competitive tournies will be back on the map again.
Right now 40K is no suitable for competitive play really, the rules just don't quite work well enough and no one seems to ever playtest the scenarios they pick. I'm sure after 6th end competitive tournies will be back on the map again.
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I doubt GWs decision to can it (assuming it has been canned and this isnt just internet hearsay) has anything to do with competitive play and such, more likely it was canned because its not a profitable venture,same reason why they have got rid of the multiple US games days and other events. Events like that take man power to plan and organise,even for a weekend of gaming you need tables and scenery and staff, i doubt the cost of entry will cover everything,i doubt many of the players spend a fortune on new gear while at the events.
If the event does not turn a profit no reason to carry it on, if people want to compete competitively they could organise an event themselves.
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If the event does not turn a profit no reason to carry it on, if people want to compete competitively they could organise an event themselves.
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That's kinda where I'm going with the competing factions within GW. You don't run that kind of event to make a profit, you do it for brand awareness. If they were committed to competitive play then they would be willing to bank roll them to increase the hype etc. As it stands they have only ever done them in a vaguely half hearted fashion, never really promoted them, unlike say miniature painting competitions which GW backs. There just doesn't seem to be much will to push after after their abortive attempts previously.
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My friend owns a FLGS and hates hard boys. Says the absolutely worst type of people show up. I have never played but have been to two events and am glad I didn't have to get into some of the arguments I've seen. I'd have certainly thrown a punch or ten. I'm hugely competitive in every sport I play (organized or not), but I play fair and don't twist the rules around to suit my needs. I hate those people, and they seem to come out of the woodwork for these events. I won’t give a F%^$, but I know that there are many that do.
I doubt GW cares about hard boys’ image, so I think it might be a 6th ed, or financial issue. Or maybe they realize how horribly written their rules are and don't want to expose their mistakes on such a grand scale...
I doubt GW cares about hard boys’ image, so I think it might be a 6th ed, or financial issue. Or maybe they realize how horribly written their rules are and don't want to expose their mistakes on such a grand scale...
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