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Discussion Starter #1
I don't know if you heard but the English are apparently "pro-Arab and anti-Israel" according to President Shimon Peres.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3927820,00.html

Apparently being dubious about Israel's policies regarding Gaza and not supporting a Jewish State after WWII (in fact we supported Palestine) makes us anti-Israel. Seriously Israel can not handle any criticism...
 

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I personally liked Sheldon Coopers idea of building a replica Jerusalem in the New Mexico desert and flying one half of the demographic over there from the current Jerusalem. Everyone's happy! :laugh:

I think the entire situation over there is totally laughable and rather sad, frankly. Someone really ought to clue both sides in that the Old Testament doesn't work in modern day society.
 

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i'm not anti any country really. I am however anti-coverment in some places such as China and North Korea. As well as anti-religious to manly islamic countries. Seriously if the people in isral were not religous then they wouldn't be as much of a problem.
 

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I hate the way the "anti-semitic" label gets bandied about whenever someone dissapproves of Israeli government policy. Personally, having lived and worked in the middle east, I can see more justice in the Palestinian cause than the Zionist one. But if I dare to say so in public, that makes me anti-semitic. WTF? My wife is Jewish...
 

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You have to point out though that anyone not pro-Israeli is anti-semitic.
By modern standards, yes, I think I probably am anti-semitic... not because Im anti-Israeli, or anti-jew just because Im unbiased in the Israeli-Palistine conflict (if you can call it that). Israel's leaders should be brought to the Hague to face war crimes- Palistinian terrorist leaders get executed bu the Israelis, but there is no responsibility taken by the Israeli state or its leaders for the massive numbers of civilian death's suffered by the palistinian people.

Israel operates as though it has the moral imperitude to do anything it wants because its civilians are being killed... but while the Palistinian's are suffering far greater numbers of civilian deaths and are forced to live stateless and as second class citisens it should be the Israelis that suffer the weight of international condemnation (which they dont thanks to their close friendship with the US).



It might be obvious that this topic really gets to me... but then it should. Bloody Sunday saw 13 civilains killed in Ireland by the British army, for which the army and Britain suffered massive condemnation and even 40 years later it hasnt been forgotten, even though the crowd was meant to have fired the first shots (I doubt that though).... meanwhile there must have been thousands of such incidents performed by Israel without more then a political slapped wrist...


In case people think I'm just racist or biased- I have lived with people from 10-11 countries, have friends from numerous more (including every continent except for north america) and have christian, buddist, hindu and muslim friends... I dont judge people on what they look like, what religion they are (although it does get interesting when you have a kitchen where you have to keep track of certain stuff that must be kept well clear of beef/pork of any sort) only on who they are...
 

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The way I see it, Israel has proved, time and again, that it will make any effort necessary to ensure its survival. Until the rest of the region understands this, there will be conflict.

As for the IDF's actions against civilians...it's certainly horrible. However, to mention that side of the conflict without giving some account for the atrocities committed by groups like Hamas and Hezbollah would seem to betray a bias. No side can truly claim innocence in this conflict. Each side would certainly claim to be fighting merely for its own survival.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
What I really love about the story is the fact that the leaders of the Jewish community in Britain just went 'Wtf!? Britain isn't anti-semitic'.

Truth be told I don't support Israel, in fact I think we should officially do the same thing as our Universities and cut all ties to the country until some sort of inquest is held in the World Court about their actions in Gaza.
 

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ah it's all bullshit this stuff makes me so mad

all the time some asshole is always spouting shit like this, someone always plays a race or religion card and it's bullshit and the do it because our dickless government always folds to it.

i don't think i even know anyone who gives a shit about jews, the only thing i do know is people are pissed off with Muslims (mainly because they play the race/religion card all to often) and the polish.
 

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The way I see it, Israel has proved, time and again, that it will make any effort necessary to ensure its survival. Until the rest of the region understands this, there will be conflict.

As for the IDF's actions against civilians...it's certainly horrible. However, to mention that side of the conflict without giving some account for the atrocities committed by groups like Hamas and Hezbollah would seem to betray a bias. No side can truly claim innocence in this conflict. Each side would certainly claim to be fighting merely for its own survival.

Hamas and Hezbollah are accepted as terrorist organisations, many of their leaders are wanted criminals. Israeli armed forces not seen as terrorists and none of their leaders have been charged with war crimes, let alone convicted.
And to put things in perspective: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_in_the_Israeli–Palestinian_conflict_2003

In the 5 1/2 years upto feb 2006 892 Palistinian children died, compared to 113 Israeli. Now the 100+ killed by the terrorists is terrible, but there is almost 8 times more killed by the Israeli's in retribution or as collateral in executions. Remember, these figures are children, there is no question whether or not they are terrorists that are claimed to be innocent upon their death...

I'll freely condem the Palistinian attacks against Israel, but Israel's responses are worse: out of proportion and counter-productive (and in my eyes criminal). Making desperate people increasingly desperate isnt going to end this conflict- it can only end either with the anhiliation of the Palistinians or with a stable and viable homeland for them, free of Israel.
 

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the only thing i do know is people are pissed off with Muslims (mainly because they play the race/religion card all to often)
You are quite low then. I hat Islam (That the religion it self not the followers) with almsot everything. I will admit that i am Athisist and when looking at the Jewish and the Musslims the Jewish are a darn site better. There are only 2 relgionjs i have a problem with really. The Cathlic Church(protasants keep to them selves alot more) and Islam (Scentoligy isn't a religion so they don't count).
Most of the stuff i here in the middle east almsot always seems to be religous related and i can't name many terrorist attackers that aren't/wern't Islamic.
I have very little intrest in who untamtly contols Gaza and the "holy land" but what i do care about is each side calling each other anmes, isulting and even killing each other becuase of a 2000+ year old book wroten by a few of know nothing people tells them too. John Leanon was right when he sung Imagine. When there is no religon then the world will be a much better place.
*rant over...for now*
 

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You are quite low then. I hat Islam (That the religion it self not the followers) with almsot everything. I will admit that i am Athisist and when looking at the Jewish and the Musslims the Jewish are a darn site better. There are only 2 relgionjs i have a problem with really. The Cathlic Church(protasants keep to them selves alot more) and Islam (Scentoligy isn't a religion so they don't count).
Most of the stuff i here in the middle east almsot always seems to be religous related and i can't name many terrorist attackers that aren't/wern't Islamic.
I have very little intrest in who untamtly contols Gaza and the "holy land" but what i do care about is each side calling each other anmes, isulting and even killing each other becuase of a 2000+ year old book wroten by a few of know nothing people tells them too. John Leanon was right when he sung Imagine. When there is no religon then the world will be a much better place.
*rant over...for now*

Alright, this is gonna take a while...though probably not as long as it took me to interpret your post.

1. Your problem should be with the Muslims who intentionally misinterpret the tenets and writings of their religion, not with Islam itself. They are a vocal minority among the Muslim community, and certainly do not speak for the vast majority of Muslims on this planet.

2. I'll admit I'm not all that familiar with Protestant sects in Britain, but at least on this side of the Atlantic, they tend to be a damn sight more 'in your face' than Catholics. See, most of us aren't so big on the public worship/evangelizin' side of things.

3. Scientology is technically a religion. A weird one, sure, but to not call it a religion simply because you don't like it...

4. Several months ago, a disgruntled American citizen flew a plane into an IRS building. Fifteen years ago, Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols blew up a federal building in Oklahoma City. Neither incident had a damn thing to do with Islam.

5. The conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians has a hell of a lot more to do with land disputes and vendettas born though years of conflict than it does with any book....and for the record, the Bible isn't what you're looking for. The Torah predates the New Testament significantly, whilst the Qu'ran is significantly younger.
 

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Alright, this is gonna take a while...though probably not as long as it took me to interpret your post.

1. Your problem should be with the Muslims who intentionally misinterpret the tenets and writings of their religion, not with Islam itself. They are a vocal minority among the Muslim community, and certainly do not speak for the vast majority of Muslims on this planet.

2. I'll admit I'm not all that familiar with Protestant sects in Britain, but at least on this side of the Atlantic, they tend to be a damn sight more 'in your face' than Catholics. See, most of us aren't so big on the public worship/evangelizin' side of things.

3. Scientology is technically a religion. A weird one, sure, but to not call it a religion simply because you don't like it...

4. Several months ago, a disgruntled American citizen flew a plane into an IRS building. Fifteen years ago, Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols blew up a federal building in Oklahoma City. Neither incident had a damn thing to do with Islam.

5. The conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians has a hell of a lot more to do with land disputes and vendettas born though years of conflict than it does with any book....and for the record, the Bible isn't what you're looking for. The Torah predates the New Testament significantly, whilst the Qu'ran is significantly younger.
1. I don't think it's worth going into who is the extremists in any particular religion.

2. The protestant church in England is the state religion so they have no need to evangelise.

3. Scientology isn't universally recognised as a religion (it's banned in some countries as far as i remember).

4. No one cares about people that blow up buildings that have no connection to islam because it doesn't match the media plotline of the day.

5. Your argument does have some weight but the religious texts do help to separate the groups from each other even more.
 

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Even if religion was removed it wouldn't change much. Violence wouldn't stop, people would simply find a different excuse to kill.
 

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This interests me...am I right in assuming there are more Protestant sects present in Britain than the C of E?

Yes, you have methodists (who in the 18th century spread their ideas to America and founded the Evangelical groups you were referring to earlier) and I believe the Baptists are one as well (not sure though).

C of E is the main one that has been the state religion since the time of Henry VIII. They have almost nothing to do with the evangelical "in your face" Christians you mentioned, though Methodism was an offshoot of C of E brought about by the Enlightenment (where the idea of approaching things through science rather than religious dogma took hold and brought about Newton, etc.). It was never officially connected to C of E. There is also the Church of Wales and the Church of Scotland and the Church of Ireland, but they are generally on the same wavelength as C of E and they are the official state religion in these parts of Britain.
 

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blahblahblahblah
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I'm not, I wish Israel would just hurry up and realize with there AMAZING military technology they could just crush every man woman and child that opposes them and grind there bones to dust, then create some kind of amazing laser based anti country laser using those bones and bits of belly button fluff.

I don't care if your jewish, islamic, christian or you follow a poor faith that now exists to make you feel special...church of england, I just want to see a merkava crush a childs skull, whats wrong with that?, I see no problem in killing civilians to win a battle, it can gain you a reputation of fear, a huge weapon in the users favor, or using them as shields to protect you from countries with rules.
 

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This interests me...am I right in assuming there are more Protestant sects present in Britain than the C of E?
Considerably more. Church in Wales, Church in Scotland, and Church of Ireland are all part of the Anglican Communion, but seperate from the Church of England.

Nonconformist churches (those that do not subscribe to the Anglican Communion) include Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, and probably a few others that I have forgotten. They have emerged gradually since the 17th century, in response to various factors (including, but not limited to, the scientific enlightenment). The important thing to remember with these churches is that these are the ones the government of the day deemed "safe" - dangerous religious deviants were shipped off to the colonies ;)

Nonsubscribing churches are an altogether different beast - these are the ones that refuse to accept the 39 articles (the test in UK law to determine "Christianity") including Quakers and Unitarians. They were only legally recognised in the 1830's, by the same act of parliament that gave Catholics and Jews rights in law.

EDIT: To get back on topic, my personal solution to the middle east problem is simple: reform the knights templar and retake Jerusalem. Then hold two fingers up at our neighbours and say "neither of you can have it."
 

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blahblahblahblah
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Good luck with those war crimes trials and economic sanctions/trade boycotts.
I haven't done any war crimes.....yet, still need to refine the plans for global takeover.....starting with 3 nukes on france of course, to gain support from 99% of the world.
 
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