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Does Apocalypse meet, exceed or not meet your pre-launch expectations? Explain.
Apocalypse: exceeds or doesn't make expectations?
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114 Posts
It does nice new models and rules like 1 damage table and destroyer weps.
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1,627 Posts
I think it's fantastic. Far exceeds my expectations. At first I was dubious. I saw a big scam to sell backstock. I was wrong (well...partly wrong at least).
New models are awesome, the deals on figs (Battle Company, Nid Swarm, etc.) are un-beatable and do a good job in clearing out old stock for GW.
The focus of Apocalypse, on FUN, "rules as intended" games (opposed to more competitive Rules as Written games) makes a world of difference to me (being of the less-competitive type).
Nowadays, I don't want to play anything else.
New models are awesome, the deals on figs (Battle Company, Nid Swarm, etc.) are un-beatable and do a good job in clearing out old stock for GW.
The focus of Apocalypse, on FUN, "rules as intended" games (opposed to more competitive Rules as Written games) makes a world of difference to me (being of the less-competitive type).
Nowadays, I don't want to play anything else.
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368 Posts
OK so i know that it's probably the best way for GW to make loads of cash off of us, whoever came up with this idea obviously earned his paycheck but i'm totally up for Apocalypse. One thing that didnt surprise me really but still vexxes me tonnes is that there are no Witch hunters data sheets. No formations, no new units, no new rules, no nothing. We hardly even got a mention and it was a pretty big book lets be honest. They could have shoved in the repressor maybe? Thats FW and not GW mainstream and most Sororitas armies i've seen have them in. But i'm just bitter. It was still an awesome book.
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126 Posts
I didn't really have many expectations and my cynicism was high prior to release. However my few apocalypse games have been very fun and I really love what it's done to large scale games. The deployment and first turn changes are excellent and the super heavy table is very good. The best thing are the strategic assets though. So very funny and have made the strategy and tactics of the game completely different from regular 40K.
Though only a few stand out all are worth a look and I'm really enjoying trying them out.
Though only a few stand out all are worth a look and I'm really enjoying trying them out.
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6,534 Posts
Apocalypse has been more or less what I expected it to be. It at least alleviates some of GW's financial ailing while providing some streamlined rules for the big games that everyone loves to play occasionally. Unlike Cities of Death, which seems to be more or less ignored at the moment, I don't really see Apocalypse fading. Everyone likes playing big games once in a while, after all, and with all the stuff everyone's bought lately, it seems likely that people are going to want to use it more often than not. I know I will... between the Emperor's Fist tank company and the Space Marine Company, I want to move towards 3000 points on a regular basis anyway. Most of my group kind of agrees, since they've all thrown down for the package deals too.
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109 Posts
Exceeds, and nicely too. Despite having played a LOT of huge battles over the years, Apocalypse delivers nicely and in a more organized fashion than the sometimes random stuff that was done in the past. Rules for units, while not strictly necessary, are very nice and do cut down on the negotiation time that used to be such a pain in the old days.
Love it.
Sister Sin
Love it.
Sister Sin
Exceeds!!!!!
Since i started collecting 40k i've never wanted to go along with this 1500pt battles. Me and my friends have always played team battles of at least 5000pts a team and i think the most we ever played was 10000pts, we've always liked fielding such big armies. It's nice because now you can play large scale battles at games workshop. Before apocalypse even came out i had an IG army designed to be worth over 15000pts, although right now it's only 4000. The thing is though I also believe that 3000pts is like a normal battle. A nice games workshop apocalypse battle for me would be about 10000pts although it would take a long time. So it does exceed in one way but it doesn't in another.
Since i started collecting 40k i've never wanted to go along with this 1500pt battles. Me and my friends have always played team battles of at least 5000pts a team and i think the most we ever played was 10000pts, we've always liked fielding such big armies. It's nice because now you can play large scale battles at games workshop. Before apocalypse even came out i had an IG army designed to be worth over 15000pts, although right now it's only 4000. The thing is though I also believe that 3000pts is like a normal battle. A nice games workshop apocalypse battle for me would be about 10000pts although it would take a long time. So it does exceed in one way but it doesn't in another.
It meets my expectations, but then my expectations where pretty low.
I don't think Apoc has the monopoly on 'fun', if people where seriously playing 40k prior to it for anything else?
I find it a step down in terms of skill/thought needed to play, tactics, plans, etc from 40k- and considering how simple 40k is that's an achievement.
A lack of FOC was just begging for Falcon/Ass Cannon/Uber Unit spam never before imagined.
The whole 'bidding for first turn' became transparent in our first Apoc game. We both bid the highest time possible, because getting to deploy second knowing exactly where the enemy is is far more valuable than going first when the opponent has deployed everything where you can't hurt it...
Deployment then simply became- guys with turn 1 far forward as possible, guys with turn 2 hidden and ready.
Any game where huge armies can apparently appear 12" apart before the first shot is fired, and potential get first turn charges en mass is retarded tactically.
After the first test game showed how rubbish Apoc was, we tried a second game using a set of extensive House Rules I devised to bring back thought into the game- which meant basically only the War Machines and Strategic Assets where considered from the Apoc book.
The game went a lot better, although a Thunderhawk can practically win the game on it's own.
As expected, I haven't heard much since about Apoc, we just continued normal 40k games....and amazingly have found non-Apoc games can be fun too (unless playing Taudar).
I don't think Apoc has the monopoly on 'fun', if people where seriously playing 40k prior to it for anything else?
I find it a step down in terms of skill/thought needed to play, tactics, plans, etc from 40k- and considering how simple 40k is that's an achievement.
A lack of FOC was just begging for Falcon/Ass Cannon/Uber Unit spam never before imagined.
The whole 'bidding for first turn' became transparent in our first Apoc game. We both bid the highest time possible, because getting to deploy second knowing exactly where the enemy is is far more valuable than going first when the opponent has deployed everything where you can't hurt it...
Deployment then simply became- guys with turn 1 far forward as possible, guys with turn 2 hidden and ready.
Any game where huge armies can apparently appear 12" apart before the first shot is fired, and potential get first turn charges en mass is retarded tactically.
After the first test game showed how rubbish Apoc was, we tried a second game using a set of extensive House Rules I devised to bring back thought into the game- which meant basically only the War Machines and Strategic Assets where considered from the Apoc book.
The game went a lot better, although a Thunderhawk can practically win the game on it's own.
As expected, I haven't heard much since about Apoc, we just continued normal 40k games....and amazingly have found non-Apoc games can be fun too (unless playing Taudar).
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126 Posts
Jeridan, I think you're being grumpy for the sake of it. I reread the thread after your post and can't see where your "monopoly on fun" comment came from. Most of the comments have just said it's more fun than they expected.
I still play regular 40K mostly, it's simplier, quicker and much easier to just walk in and play. However the occasional game has proven to be a great break from the norm.
I do agree with some of your points though. The first turn bidding can make going second much more favourable but none of my apocalypse games have been affected by it. Played to go first and second, it had no effect on the game whatsoever and not because my opponents didn't know what they were doing. The horrible armylists turned out to be less of an issue than I thought. Both I and the others playing were looking for a fun game. We made an occasion of it. It was.
Apologies for a pedantic post but your reply bemused me. It just seemed like you admitted it met your expectations and realising this had to cover up by condemning it for it's faults.
I still play regular 40K mostly, it's simplier, quicker and much easier to just walk in and play. However the occasional game has proven to be a great break from the norm.
I do agree with some of your points though. The first turn bidding can make going second much more favourable but none of my apocalypse games have been affected by it. Played to go first and second, it had no effect on the game whatsoever and not because my opponents didn't know what they were doing. The horrible armylists turned out to be less of an issue than I thought. Both I and the others playing were looking for a fun game. We made an occasion of it. It was.
Apologies for a pedantic post but your reply bemused me. It just seemed like you admitted it met your expectations and realising this had to cover up by condemning it for it's faults.
Not sure I follow. Yes it met my expectations, I was expecting an even more dumbed down version of 40k where 'fun' translates as never needing to think during the game. Hence expectations met.
A £30 book doesn't suddenly turn a WAAC'er power gamer into a guy there for a laugh, nor does regular 40k forbid people from having fun and not bearding up.
The biggest selling point as stressed by such views is that Apoc is selling me 'fun'- well I've found I can find that for free by not playing against dicks.
I find that 40k is already lacking in much tactics beyond 'what units should I take', and so was expecting Apoc to add something more. To it's credit it made the Flyer rules a lot more workable (the old rules where you paid £300+ for a Flyer just to take it off the board at the end of every enemy turn, or where Flyers could never engage other Flyers), it gives a lot of new War Machine details and the disgusting power that is a D Weapon.
But the whole 'random dice/luck = more fun' doesn't do it for me, I can play Yahtzee for that. Being given more tactical options, more variety, more choices in what my toy soldiers can do- that is more fun to me.
That's in general on Apoc threads, not to pick out Elchimpster as his post is a very common belief.
What is normal 40k focused on Tedium? Hard Work? Pain? Misery?
A £30 book doesn't suddenly turn a WAAC'er power gamer into a guy there for a laugh, nor does regular 40k forbid people from having fun and not bearding up.
The biggest selling point as stressed by such views is that Apoc is selling me 'fun'- well I've found I can find that for free by not playing against dicks.
I find that 40k is already lacking in much tactics beyond 'what units should I take', and so was expecting Apoc to add something more. To it's credit it made the Flyer rules a lot more workable (the old rules where you paid £300+ for a Flyer just to take it off the board at the end of every enemy turn, or where Flyers could never engage other Flyers), it gives a lot of new War Machine details and the disgusting power that is a D Weapon.
But the whole 'random dice/luck = more fun' doesn't do it for me, I can play Yahtzee for that. Being given more tactical options, more variety, more choices in what my toy soldiers can do- that is more fun to me.
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126 Posts
I misunderstood your first sentence. Thanks for clearing it up.
I'm sorry you seem to have put up with so many horrible players.
(On a side note the sick strength D weapon is at least one way of killing those obnoxious holofield falcons a bit more reliably.)
I'm sorry you seem to have put up with so many horrible players.
(On a side note the sick strength D weapon is at least one way of killing those obnoxious holofield falcons a bit more reliably.)
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1,627 Posts
It's pretty easy to focus on the competitive aspect of play in 40k where Apocalypse is designed for more light-hearted/ non-competitive play.
It's the whole PLAY to win, or play to WIN thing.
I play regular 'ol 40k the same as my Apoc games, but at least in Apocalypse the expectation is for a more idealized game, where characters do things that look cool, or that are maybe "More Heroic"...like the last man standing charging the baneblade with a powerfist...instead of keeping guys back, tucked in cover, moving 5.5 inches to deny a charge.
Like I said, I play regular 40k that way, but more often than not I'm the odd man out. I've found very few people who play like I do. My non-competitive style of play is pretty rare: I just play to have fun, roll some dice and move dudes around with some semblance of tactics (tactics that would make sense on a battlefield...not game-system "tactics").
I'm not saying competitive play is bad or that competitive players are dicks or anything...it's just not my bag (baby).
Like I wrote a while back, there is a sort of social contract when people play games of any sort, and it is of ultimate importance to play with people who have the same goal in mind...regardless of what that goal is...it should be at least mostly the same or else someone if not all involved will not have fun.
It's the whole PLAY to win, or play to WIN thing.
I play regular 'ol 40k the same as my Apoc games, but at least in Apocalypse the expectation is for a more idealized game, where characters do things that look cool, or that are maybe "More Heroic"...like the last man standing charging the baneblade with a powerfist...instead of keeping guys back, tucked in cover, moving 5.5 inches to deny a charge.
Like I said, I play regular 40k that way, but more often than not I'm the odd man out. I've found very few people who play like I do. My non-competitive style of play is pretty rare: I just play to have fun, roll some dice and move dudes around with some semblance of tactics (tactics that would make sense on a battlefield...not game-system "tactics").
I'm not saying competitive play is bad or that competitive players are dicks or anything...it's just not my bag (baby).
Like I wrote a while back, there is a sort of social contract when people play games of any sort, and it is of ultimate importance to play with people who have the same goal in mind...regardless of what that goal is...it should be at least mostly the same or else someone if not all involved will not have fun.
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811 Posts
I was hoping for updated VDR, I had heard so many rumors reguarding it.
I even converted a landspeeder for it. but alas, no vdr for me.
My conversion is still badass though.
and I have absolutely loved everything else.
I just wish there was a dreadnought formation. that would be sweet.
I even converted a landspeeder for it. but alas, no vdr for me.
My conversion is still badass though.
and I have absolutely loved everything else.
I just wish there was a dreadnought formation. that would be sweet.
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1,627 Posts
An updated VDR would have been sweet! I wish that would have been in there. Maybe one day it'll be an addendum. Who knows?
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176 Posts
It was rumoured for Apocalypse. With luck it got cut because of space limitations and they'll post it online or in WD.
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3,588 Posts
i thought apocalypse was just an excuse to make gamers buy more models but i think apocalypse is a great idea nd way to get every model you and your buddies own o the table or floor in some cases
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126 Posts
Regarding VDR, just make up the rules and stats for whatever vehicle you're putting together, write a datasheet for it and discuss with your friends how much it should cost.
Ok you'll have to talk to your opponent about it and get their consent but that's part of apocalypse. You play it with friends, so long as it costs a fair price there shouldn't be any problem.
Ok you'll have to talk to your opponent about it and get their consent but that's part of apocalypse. You play it with friends, so long as it costs a fair price there shouldn't be any problem.
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