[Silb]

I've got some questions about allies in apocalypse

1. Are there any limits on how many different ally forces you can have?
(ex. 3000 pts of marines and 500 points of every other army possible)

2. Are there any limits on who can be allied with who? If so, does it apply to tournaments or apocalypse in general?
(ex. Eldar allied with Marines and Crons)

3. Is it okay if none of the allied armies are 3000 pts or more?
(ex. Chaos 2000 pt army allied with Ork 1500 pt army)

4. This one doesn't have to do with allies but I was wondering; can you have multiples of the same special character models?
(ex. a Chaos army with 4 Abaddons)

 

[The Son of Horus]

1. Technically no, but there is an Allies matrix in the back of the book that shows who you SHOULD be able to ally with, as opposed to who you actually CAN ally with. Apocalypse is about using whatever you feel like, so you could do your example of 3000 of Space Marines and 500 points of everyone else.

2. Again, there's a matrix in the back of the book. There are no formal limits rules-wise, but fluff-wise, there are some obvious combinations that don't work-- Chaos and Space Marines together, for example.

3. Technically, the side just has to be 3000 points. You could bring Gazghull Thraka and 3000-his cost of any other army and it'd be fine.

4. That's an interesting question. The short answer, I would think, is that rules-wise, you can bring four Abaddons. All force organization restrictions, 0-1 type restrictions, etc., are waived for Apocalypse, so it seems like you could bring multiples of the same special character. That being said... there's only a single one of any given special character, so there really should only be one on the board, period.

 

[Silb]

Thanks. I asked those questions because I have a 1500 pt marine army and I was thinking of making a 1500 pt cron army or a few smaller armies to use in apocalypse as allies.

 

[Mad King George]

if im in a 300 point battle can i take allies over the 3k points or

say

he has 3k points

i have 3k points
myallies have 1k points

or does it have to both add up to 3k

 

[Firenze]

You CANNOT use more than one special character in a game of apocalypse. It clearly states Induvidual not 0-1.unish:. And you both have to have 3000pts up each. But you could field a army of Chaplains with a special character chaplain to go with them just to make a point.

 

[CATzeentch]

The only requirement for the "hated" armies is that you would need to make an awesome story for them to be allied.

And no, you can't have multiples of charcters as it just wouldn't make sense,

 

[Mad King George]

i dont think i have the right reply yet

 

[Siege]

Well, in response to King George, again I don't quite understand your question and I don't have the Apoc book with me but generally you and your opponents armies should equal the same points value, including allies.

 

[Silb]

Ok, you guys are confusing me. I'll give an example and you tell me if it would be "legal" in apocalypse:

A 2000 pt marine army and a 1000 pt eldar army allied with each other.

Also, does it make a difference if the two armies are controlled by the same person or two different people?

 

[Siege]

Well, I've only recently ventured into the realm of Apocalypse, and I don't have the book, but I'm sure that would be fine.

 

[Elchimpster]

Okay...in an apocalypse game, you can have one person per side with a minimum of 3k per person...OR any number of people as long as the total per side adds up to approx 3k or more.

There's no limit to the number of players who play, or numbers each person can control, just a bare minimum of 3k per side. If both sides of the table don't have the same number of points, the difference can be made up with strategic assets. In the end both sides need to be approximately equal in points value.

Since Apocalypse isn't designed for competitive play at all, the question of whether X can be use in a tournament is really moot.

If you wanted to run The Entire Librarium of the Blood Ravens Chapter and field a dozen librarians, you can.

There is an Allies Matrix in the back of the Apocalypse book. When creating allies for your forces, try and make something that makes sense, not something that is mechanically or mathematically efficient: remember the entire point of Apocalypse is the have huge epic battles that resemble something out of a novel, not a hybrid of armies designed for maximum efficiency. If you find yourself measuring distances and deciding whether to move an inch shorter to deny a charge...you're wrong.

As there is only one Abaddon, you should only have one on the table.

 

[Silb]

There is an Allies Matrix in the back of the Apocalypse book. When creating allies for your forces, try and make something that makes sense, not something that is mechanically or mathematically efficient: remember the entire point of Apocalypse is the have huge epic battles that resemble something out of a novel, not a hybrid of armies designed for maximum efficiency. If you find yourself measuring distances and deciding whether to move an inch shorter to deny a charge...you're wrong.

I agree with that, but I think that the space marines completely despising the eldar and the tau in the allies matrix is a little bit inaccurate (the Blood Ravens being a perfect example as to why). I personally think that most marine chapters would ally with a tau or eldar force in order to defeat nids, crons, dark eldar, the forces of chaos, or the orks.

 

[Elchimpster]

Yeah, there is certainly a hierarchy as far as the 'lesser of two evils' goes. There are several instances where Space Marines have allied with xenos forces against Chaos, Necrons or Tyranids.

 

[Mad King George]

i want to take 2k points of space wolves and 1k poitns of valhallen / vostroyn guard

 

[Elchimpster]

i want to take 2k points of space wolves and 1k points of valhallan / vostroyan guard

That would certainly meet the minimums for a game of Apocalypse in all respects!

 

[Firenze]

that is perfect. Does dont put all super powerful stuff it doesnt work right as you need a balance!

 

[Marneus Calgar]

Thanks. I asked those questions because I have a 1500 pt marine army and I was thinking of making a 1500 pt cron army or a few smaller armies to use in apocalypse as allies.

Marines and 'crons? Thats a no no according to the matrix. Personally, Marines and Daemon or Witch hunters is a great mix (the game i had to day had this allying and it was awesome!)

 

[CATzeentch]

Chaos marines and recent marine renegades would work, i.e. thousand sons and a detachment of marines lead by a librarian that was corrupted by tzeentch. This would sort of make sense for the allies matrix.

 

[Silb]

Marines and 'crons? Thats a no no according to the matrix. Personally, Marines and Daemon or Witch hunters is a great mix (the game i had to day had this allying and it was awesome!)

The allies matrix isn't some kind of a law. It's just used for people who don't know much about 40k fluff. I personally think marines should distrust eldar instead of despising them and the eldar should despise instead of distrust Dark Eldar. As for crons and marines, I decided not to collect crons but it is not unthinkable for them to ally if the crons would rather kill another enemy (ex. chaos, eldar, or another army that uses a lot of psykers or daemons)
and the marine chapter had few or no psykers.

 

[Culler]

Chaos marines and recent marine renegades would work, i.e. thousand sons and a detachment of marines lead by a librarian that was corrupted by tzeentch. This would sort of make sense for the allies matrix.

Similarly with IG. The allies matrix is really not that good. Why tyranids would willingly work with anyone is beyond me, especially why orks and tyranids would work together. It's not like you can bargain with the hive mind. Maybe if the orks looted a hive tyrant.

Basically, the matrix is there to tell people not to just use what's mechanically superior, but to try to keep it fluffy.