Anticipation can lead to disappointment: New Codices

Hoorah! Got the new 'dex - I'm still green!

On the whole, I'm a happy bunny. Definitely not overpowered (toned down, yes; but maintained and improved the Orky flavour IMHO)

The anticipation was misplaced though, I had thought I might have to completely change my style and choices ... but I'll only do it to include some very nice tweaks (unpredictable, but fun).
The biggest influence was probably reading all the fluff (OK, again in most instances, but..)
It will be a hit n miss gaming army, so I can see Tourney players avoiding this like the plague.
But it is Orky .... campaign players are going to carry on as normal .. probably with a bit more fun. Having RT style Orks is back in fashion. The loss of the choppa is lamentable, but to be honest..... right, in the new scheme of things. Then again, we have the Shokk & sWeirdboyz (both capable of polar performances) and stormboyz dying on arrival (Vroom, splat!) etc.

The discussion so far has been great. It has made me evaluate what I really want from the hobby, I beleive that will be ... fun. What better than to choose this incarnation of the Orks! (for me), bring on the defeats and humiliation... to quote from the 'dex.... It's not da winnin'..it's da fightin' dats da fing!

What is being put across here is still mixed, but in favour of adaptation rather than abandoning. I'm "warmed" by that.. I haven't got my reactions wrong (not to say the other is), I just can live with the changes.. I think.

From the sounds of the discussions I also feel quite lucky (compared to the Chaos guys), but that is probably just that I expected the Orks to be "Quirky".

I've been up against the new Chaos .. they are still nasty. I hope to adapt and give them a run for their money with my Orks, still.

Got a game coming up in a week or so with my Sons vs new Orks so it will be interesting to see how these two revamped armies do vs each other. I do know that the new Orks tore a new one in my Tau with extreme ease.

And I do have to say that while the majority of the Ork codex is well done, Lootas are just ridiculous. A unit that can fire 45 autocannon shots in a turn should not be in Elites, ever. Hell, a unit should not be able to fire 45 ac shots in a turn period. Even rolling a 1 for number of shots you are still sending out 15 ac shots in a turn. Yes this is balanced a tad by the BS2 stat but not nearly enough. In my game vs the new Orks, the Lootas scored, get this, 15 glancing hits on my Hammerhead and of those 6 were either Immobilized or Destroyed results. That is a bit much imho and I would say that about any unit with that ability.

I agree with the Wraithlord on this issue and would add a couple of others. Painbosses with biker nobs are another. (Well armoured multi-wound feel no pain orks are wrong on every level. Not to mention the mobility and damage potential.)

Lootas have one redeeming feature and that is that they are not resilient. They will die easy if you shoot them and with orky Ld run off pretty quickly.

I'm not really all that happy with the new codex so far. I love the look and feel of it but think the armies that it's making are just too overwhelming. You really can have everything you want.

Anticipation for new codices is being somewhat alleviated by early leaked details and information. However in someways it just makes the over-reactions worse. I think the codices are following the same rise and fall in acceptance depending on who's the main guy writing them.

As far as pre-conceived notions and expectations go...I think of it like a movie, a TV show, a comic, or anything of that sort where there is hype, and expectations built in a certain direction. We get a thought in our head, like comparing it to previous versions, or from rumors and sneak peaks and it sticks, and we develop an opinion based upon incomplete knowledge.

For example, Star Wars Episode 1-3. How many people walked in with expectations? How many of those expectations were crushed and disappointment was the result?

How about CSI: Miami? How about BSG Season 3? How about White Dwarf Magazine? How about the CSM Codex?

People have expectations walking in, and if they aren't met, disappointment is the result.

How many things would have been received better if we walked in with no pre-conceived notions or expectations and simply took each thing, product, episode, book, comic, etc on it's own merit?

Would they save every product?

No. Regardless of expectations I would want to stab George Lucas in the eye for the retarded dialogue in Star Wars Ep 1-3. But I expect many products would be viewed in a bit better light without our expectations muddying up the water.

I've decided to skip my previous pledge not to post here anymore.

I don't think GW could afford to crush the SM codex. The only real changes are going to be cheaper transports, Combat Squads, 5 or 10 man squads, and limited options for sergeants. That last one crushes me. All my sergeants were modeled after what I gave them, as individuals. Now it's like: SM Sergeant. Power Weapon. Plasma Pistol. Hooray.

Frankly, I think that they're desperately trying to get people to buy more models. I took a look at the annual report GW sends out, and they're rapidly approaching rock bottom, despite the ridiculous cost of 10 oz of plastic. We all know the packaging is 90% of what they're selling us....

Think about it. Orks go down in points. Transports go down in points. You can ONLY use 5 or 10 man squads. Apocalypse. (possibly) Planetstrike. It's all a scam to buy more models to dig GW out of their overpriced hole. I've always been a stern supporter off GW, but as soon as I saw the Eldar dex', I ran for the hills with the old dexes..I only buy off Ebay now. I think the point I'm trying to make is that GW is "streamlining" WH40K for two reasons.

1. They are a company. They want to make money.

2. GW is the ONLY place to buy WH40K minis sanctioned by GW. Pretty much, they have a monopoly on it. If they were to raise prices to cruel, I'm sure people would still play. It's a seller's market, but it does have some cracks in it. Like Ebay.

-Dirge

Churlton said:

I take it that, like myself, any enemy Codex release has you thinking that you're going to get creamed every time... for your own releases, you're expecting to be "Nerfed".

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My main army is Dark angels, I'm paranoid. What else can I say?

I struggle with expectations. Sticking to just 40K I always try to keep an open mind until I've played both with and against an army. Cynicism is a constant companion however and I must confess until I've settled down with the finished product the juries still out.

Orks look like they're going to be very well received. It has been able to expand on the contents of the last codex (much like the Tyranid book) and enliven the whole army.

Chaos and the Dark angel book did the opposite and thus were much less well received. They did little to expand the rules and options from their previous books. The restrictions were what stood out and so opinion about them was low.

Despite this we have to wait and see. Anticipation and expectation is one thing. Reality is another. This year's (I mean last years) GT heats saw many new lists and chaos was still doing well. Even the Dark angels found some success despite a fair few naysayers.

After having the chance to really study the ork book I think there are some issues with it. I do like it, but the units are not balanced.

For elites you can have tank bustas, lootas or burna boys, and everyone will just take lootas and more lootas, and then maybe some more lootas. They are clearly better than the others at any task, and even get the same stuff for a lower cost than the other mobs.

This seems to be a direct response to the old book, where tank bustas and burna boys were common (the latter with no burnas in many cases, just a force field). Now these have both been made far less useful since they are high cost and have to move around to be effective, and you can't take extra ones without special weapons to soak up wounds. The compulsory movement of tankbustas makes them kind of weird in escalation games, where your opponent can just bring on a vehicle miles out of their range and have the tankbustas chase it around.

So anyway now everyone has models for burna boys and tankbustas that they don’t need any more, and everyone wants to buy lootas – and guess what, GW have released some new figures for lootas. <Insert your preferred conspiracy theory here>.

There are some real failings in the rules that will require clarification. For example, what are the weapon options for a nob in a shoota mob? A PK replaces his choppa, but he no longer has a choppa as he has exchanged his slugga and choppa with a shoota. Hi might buy the PK before getting his choppa, in which case he probably can’t have a shoota… needs clarification.

Probably the most odd thing is that their sample army list has some costs wrongly calculated. I’m pretty sure that the Nobz mob cost is calculated incorrectly, for example, and should be 200 points – or maybe 180 depending on whether you take the number in the unit from the army list or the photo. That’s a bit poor.

Someguy said:

After having the chance to really study the ork book I think there are some issues with it. I do like it, but the units are not balanced.

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Yes, things are not balanced, but they are orky.
As you say, the elites examples definitely put a bias on the lootas, but their high costs should be prohibitive (I wouldn't want to invest in 3x mobs that could run away at the drop of a squig). I think that should sufficiently satisfy the balance for reported potency of the weapons themselves. The others have the challenge of getting them to the right target to offset their uber-potency, IMHO (should they make it). 45x power weapon attacks on the charge, ? 15ish rokkits heading for your tanks (the low BS also offsets).

Again the balance is their with the inherent unpredictability; weapons that have as much chance of destroying the bearer as it does of insta-killing ICs. Half the time dependant on the actual chances of rolling a hit.

Sorry, I'm heading off topic.

Now that you have digested the 'dex a bit (bar the probs you have seen) has it changed your opinion, from pre-release, first sight and then digestion?

Mine, (to re-cap) has been Oh no!:dunno:, Nice! :biggrin:and then woohoo!:chuffed: