[Churlton]

This is not a judgment on the imminent release (tomorrow -- woohoo) of the Orks, just an idea for a discussion point.

I am a big Ork fan & player, but trepidation resulting from previous 'dex releases that I have been waiting for (BAs for example) have me girding loins for disappointment, from this one.

I know that it is a case for "wait until you get your hands on it", but the rumours/ sneaks and official GW releases have me confused as to how I should feel.

Modelling; I think that I'm going to love ----- Gaming; I'm not so sure.
I'll have a better opinion once I've tried it out - obviously.

Scarpia is vehemently opposed to this one, and I've seen others that have changed their gaming lives because of one Codex change in their favourite army or an opponents.

But will this release have me running for the hills screaming "NERF!"??
I doubt it, but I may be unhappy.
Why should I be unhappy? after all it is a dynamic, absorbing game that naturally evolves/devolves.

Am I wrong to take this attitude, how do others feel or cope?


"Red Wunz go Fasta!!!"

 

[Someguy]

What's interesting here is that he full codex has been available to download for several months now... illegally. It isn't going to be any surprise to most people. I know at least one person who has been playing games using the new rules for a while now.

I've now seen the real book in store and I like it. I don't think there will be (or have been) people complaining that any of the character has been removed, as they have with chaos. It feels like a much more polished and slightly more competitive book than the last one, and actually reintroduces a lot of the mad orky things that players like to see: Weirdboyz, shokk attack guns, random amounts of movement and unpredictable looted weapons, for example.

I haven't seen any rants against the new book. That probably means it's one of the best receieved releases GW have put out in ages, at least by the internet set.

 

[Bishop120]

Of all the codexs that have come out in the last few years, this is one that I think they did right. Though I was never big into Ork fluff, it seems to me all the previous Ork fluff is still there without any major changes (unlike the horror of change to the Chaos fluff). In general all the Cult diffrences is now a paint job away like chaos, but if you ask me the codex is an improvement. Yes gone are the stupid choppa rules which ate through terminator armor and left flak armor alone but now you have an army which can truly WAAAAAGH!

As much as I treat GW as this big money hungry grub who has ruined a lot of a game which I love this is one new codex I think they got right. This new codex is definately bringing with it a new orky flavor in a lot of little ways which I think will leave gamers happy for once with a new codex.

 

[Churlton]

Thanx Someguy, that gives me hope for this Codex.

Sorry, what I intended for the thread was that I (or anyone) could get upset with the release of any new 'dex; and stop playing that army etc.
That I was even thinking about the possibility (due to anticipation) got me wondering about others experiences, good & bad.

Like a much-hyped film/sequel ........

You mentioned the CSM Codex; How did that affect you? In hobby-terms.

This new codex is definately bringing with it a new orky flavor in a lot of little ways which I think will leave gamers happy for once with a new codex.

So you don't consider the balance of this one is wrong or uber-charged?

Spoken like a true opponent:wink:

I think generally, they (GW) are levelling everyones 'dex out, so that should make less people upset .... shouldn't it?

 

[Bishop120]

Of all the codexes that have come out this is the first one I think was not "more powerfull" than all the previous new codexes. I do believe is more powerfull than the previous Ork codex but I think it is inline with all the other codexes that have come out recently. If they can make more codexes that are as balanced as this GW just may win my support back.

 

[Gore Hunter]

I personally would like to see what they are gonna do with Ghazkgull I mean lookin at his rules he seems to be better than Yarrik so maybe they will downgrade him.

 

[Someguy]

The chaos dex was a lot more complex. Actually my response was to make a chaos army, which would seem like an endourcement. I actually like the ork book a lot more as a book, but I don’t really like orks as an army, so I’m not planning on getting any.

In the case of chaos I’ve been a fan of chaos, particularly khorne and slaanesh, for a long time. In the old dex I couldn’t have actually made the army I’m planning to do as it would have been against the rules (and fluff). Now I can make my black legion within both the rules and fluff… kind of.

I couldn’t bring myself to make an army with the old codex. It was filth. I made a cool daemon prince that I never fielded because I’m so against siren (and I’d have ended up using it, I’m a bad person).

Anyway I like the new chaos book more than the old one and I like chaos, so I’m making an army. I wish the chaos book was as good as the ork one but it isn’t.

As for your general question of whether a new book could make me quit, then it’s not a simple question to answer. If a new book is so bad that it totally changes the environment due to a horribly overpowered ability then that could spoil the game for me. I don’t think it’s likely that an army I play would get nerfed and I’d quit because of it.

 

[Bishop120]

What angers me about the Chaos codex wasnt the changes to FOC or character rules but the way they horribly mangled the fluff. The Codex would have been fine had it been named Codex Renegade Marines and they had left all the Legion special characters out of it but instead they raped (IMHO) the Chaos fluff and Legion concept with this. IMHO they should rename this codex and put out another codex named Chaos Marines which focuses solely on the Legion marines and having Legion armies.

Again I have no problem with the Chaos rules. I like them all... I hope SM gets the same loving when they get redone and are equal to the new Chaos. I just hate all the fluff changes in the new Chaos.

Orks I think were the first codex which didnt suffer from the "power creep" which is inherent to this game. While made more powerfull I think it is no more powerfull than SM, Eldar, or Tyrannids. Maybe more than Tau and less (again IMHO) than Chaos.

 

[Firewolf]

>> The problem with new dex releases is that people look at the bad parts, forgetting completely about the good. The new Chaos one was dissapointing in parts, but I generally think the good out-weigh the bad. The nerf always happens, always expected yet peeps still bitch and moan about something that aint going to change. I'm filled with dread about the new Space Wolves codex(when it finally gets done), but I wont pass judgement until I've read and broken it down. i have said I'll stop playing SW if they fuck it up, but it will have to be a disgusting abomonation for me to do it. Adapt and learn is the way to go.

>> I agree wi Bishop on the legion/renegade thing wi Chaos to a point, as it is easy to build one of the big 4 Legions with a little thought, but if yer a NL/IW/AL/WB, then unfortunately yer kinda funked.

 

[morfangdakka]

For me the new Ork Codex is kind of a mixed blessing. I see the gaming aspect of orks greatly improved as they probably will be more towards my playing style. Modeling I actually see a decrease in modeling aspects. The looted vehicle was one of my favorite things and that is gone. Replaced with the looted wagon which in game play kinda sucks. Its not terrible but its not great. Like Scarpia I also am not going to be using orks that much in favor of going to Necrons as my main army and orks will be my second while I figure out how I really feel about the new codex. I won't give up on them totally but they also won't be my main army after 9 years.

 

[neilbatte]

the problm with the new chaos codex is that it goes against so much of the fluff, havocs with the icon of khorne anyone khorne is for close combat, and the actual legion troops are horrific against some armies, there is a guy in my local workshop who has 2 different armies and you only get to fight against the one thats best against your army(thousand sons really suck if you play saim hann. but to be honest most of the older guys at my workshop armies are just as bad

 

[Dirge Eterna]

I couldn’t bring myself to make an army with the old codex. It was filth.

Blasphemer!

I know I'm passionately opposed to Jervis Johnson and his inability to see things from a gamer's point of view. The Choppa was iconic to the Ork dex. It allowed Orks to take on Terminators, CSM, and Tyranid Hive Tyrants. Then all the beakie players got up and whined at the same time "Whaa! My Terminators got killed by a 80-point Ork unit! Make it stop, Mr Jervis!"

And he took away the choppa rule.

Disgraceful.

As to the chaos dex', the old one was much better. It was laid out better, had more choices, and just in general was a better dex. It had more fluff, models, and the Legion rules. Not the crap-O rules we have now for "Renegade warbands."

Sorry Jervis. I don't want a bunch of pO'd Space Marines, I want the Death Guard. The Word Bearers. For god's sake, man! The Demon rules!

I don't care that the new shiny Demon dex is coming out. For me, it's a 22$ waste of my life. I flatly use the new dex' at Tourney and when the GW staffers can see me. Otherwise, my Bloodletters and Demonettes are in support of my Black Apostle, and his Accursed Crozius.

Lesser demons. There are differences in the types. Moron.

The man should be impeached. Or perhaps explain to all the resentful gamers (some of the most loyal people I've ever met) why he chose to destroy the game we love.

-Dirge

 

[The Wraithlord]

there is a guy in my local workshop who has 2 different armies and you only get to fight against the one thats best against your army

Then he is an ass. I play Thousand Sons and I use the same list vs all opponents. Even at different point values the only difference is that lower values mean less of my units. Gearing your armies to play a particular army is lame in the extreme.

As to the chaos dex', the old one was much better. It was laid out better, had more choices, and just in general was a better dex. It had more fluff, models, and the Legion rules. Not the crap-O rules we have now for "Renegade warbands."

Holy hell no. The old chaos codex was a unorganized mishmash of rules that contradicted each other continually, had tons of options that were useless and no one took and, most importantly, had rules that enabled HORRIBLY broken armies to be made. The new one has its problems, I won't argue that, but it is a FAR better written codex than the old one ever was. The focus from Gifts/Skills/Wargear to actual units and models was a needed one I think. Yes I agree that they should have kept some of the fluff and rules the same but overall it is a much better codex to build an army with. And for the most part any fluff that you used to have and rules pertaining to it are easily matched with YOUR OWN choices when you build the army (IW and AL being the two that just can't be).

 

[Asmodai]

the problm with the new chaos codex is that it goes against so much of the fluff, havocs with the icon of khorne anyone khorne is for close combat,

Uh, no. Khorne is about mastery of all forms of combat - ranged, close, orbital bombardment, etc.

The whole close combat thing is really comparatively new. Khorne is the new book is much more in keeping with the fluff than it was in the 3.0 or 3.5 books.

The Choppa rule was silly and it was a save modifier in a game that had otherwise gotten rid of them. It makes sense to get rid of it. Besides, point for point, Orks are better against Marines now than they used to be.

I don't agree 100% with the changes (generic demons irks me), but overall they're on the right track.

 

[Lord Sinkoran]

if the new space marine codex is terrible i'll cry

 

[Dirge Eterna]

Uh, no again. Khorne dislikes ranged combat for brutal hand-to-hand, as seen by the Khorne Berzerkers. Not Khorne Shooty Berzerkers. Chainaxes.

Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows.


I'll not dignify that Choppa statement with a response. Eh. I don't want this to become a war, so this is it for me.

I just think that they took so much character out of the codexes to streamline rules they forgot what the armies are really about.
-Dirge

 

[Lord Sinkoran]

the choppa rule didn't make any sense it could modify terminator and power armour but couldn't modify flak or carapace. if the rule was it modifies the armour by -1 it would have been better

 

[Bishop120]

Khorne has ALWAYS been close combat. Being led by a Primarch who was thrown into Gladitorial pits and was forced to fight hand to hand non stop can do that to a Legion. Not to mention Berserker fury/frenzy makes it hard to think rationally enough to shoot straight.

To those that say the last codex was more customizable I think your wrong (and this is just me as I said). True you had more daemon options for troops but this is made up for now with the having 9 diffrent options for Marines and 1 option of deamons for a grand total of 10 diffrent troop options. Thats more than number of troop options in 2-3 other codexes combined. The one place you did get nerfed the best in was the aspiring champions. No more mini HQs running around. To make up for this your troops were boosted, your daemon count is unlimited, more Oblits, the vindicators, and Icons for everyone. Once you truly count the number of options you have with mixing and matching Icons I believe you will see that technically you have more options/flexibility now than with previous codexs.

In truth I have no problem facing an opponent who plays old school chaos. I think anyone who plays old school orks is shafting themselves but I will play them as well. And again I dont have anything truly against the rules for the new chaos. Some I dont agree with like I wish they would have put animosity in this codex so no mixing and matching certiain Icons and what not but oh well. I just hate the mangleing of the fluff in this codex.

 

[whocares]

The thing that annoys me the most about the new codices is the way they're laid out. I'm sick of having two different sections of rules for every model and having to flip between them.

I also like how stormboyz have the waagh special rule at the beginning of the book and not at the end. Obviously they weren't meant to have it, if you think about it, but it sure will cause a lot of confusion.

 

[Firewolf]

>> The way the options for models weapons is far better than the old ones. The options are there below the unit/character etc, no more having to jump between pages to get points, or look what they can have. I find having full rules seperate from army list section gives the chance to put more info/background in about units. Just my opinion though, so dont come at me shoutin'.

Khorne has ALWAYS been close combat.

>> Nope, World Eaters have always been about combat. Not every Khorne follower is a World Eater. As you said, the World Eaters were given implants, like Angron had. Most people will see Khorne followers as axe weilding lunatics, but you can shed blood without hacking someone to pieces, just not as satisfying though.