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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alright so I play against a Goblin Player (Not Orks and Gomblins because 1 block of 20 orks per 1000 points doesn't count) his entire army is made up of skull pass night gobos with three fanatics in every squad. So I'm looking to see what anti fanatic tactics yall use rather than just adding some terrain to the table. I usually play Empire but I have almost everything. Witht he new 8th ed rules I'm thinking of just adding a pair of HE great eagles as allies and dropping them right infront of his army to spawn all of the fanatics early and close to him. What's your oppinion? BTW My oppinion is that if you don't have enough fanatic models to place them all at once you shouldn't be runningn that many but he runs about twice as many fanatics as models. Irks me more than a little. Also rolls the distance for movement before deciding where they will be released from and direction, is that even legal?
 

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First off, the ally rules are for two or more players per side, not the old ally rules that allowed you to cherrypick armies.
Second, you have to declare direction BEFORE you roll for distance on the fanatics. As to not enough fanatic models, what do you all do when more fanatics are triggered than the guy has?
With the cluttered mess that 8th ed battlefields can become you're gonna see more fanatics crashing and burning, so that can alleviate the problem.
Why not try fielding suicide detachments for your units? Take the cheapest det you can for a unit and march it into the teeth of the goblins. That should give you an extra turn to deal with high rolling fanatics (leave the slower ones to mess up his lines) through shooting/magic. If he gets the first turn. he could even be in charge range!
 

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He has to declare a direction before he rolls for each fanatics movement. So yes he is acting illegally with their rules.

As to flush them out then march a cheap throwaway unit (Maybe a detachment of 5 simple halberdiers) since they activate when anything comes within 8 inches. Great eagles should not be used in this role. They excel in march blocking so you can shoot more with ranged weapons (preferably mortars against night gobbos).

Not having enough miniatures really bothers me as long as something suitable you are not going to get it confused with is used instead. Since he has skull pass using lone dwarf warriors or cannon crew are going to be hard to get mixed up with your force.
 

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A few units of 5 free company is the best way to trigge early release of fanatics,
More expensive but helpful under the new rules would be a unit of scouting woodsmen you can if your lucky release a few units worth on turn 1 which will probably do more damage to his army than yours
 

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Fast Cavalry will do the job marvelously- they are vanguard so 'scout' 12" at the start of the game, then march straight up to the enemy line, reform then go sideways along it (if you live that long)... I just dont know if there is any empire fast cav cheap enough to be worth it. The biggest advantage to them is that it'll trigger the fanatics turn 1 and mean they mess up the enemy movement from turn 1... and have time to kill lots of orks before your armies get close.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
19 point each is too expensive for fast cav at 95 points a unit. free company might work.

I did find a couple other rules that help me out alot.

1) fanatics only do d6 not 2d6 hits each
2) fanatics are lost if their unit flees before they are released.

Between the two I'm not so worried anymore.
 

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Probably should be, at least on that last point. It's nigh impossible to break really huge units of Goblins because you can't really inflict 25% casualties in a single phase. Also, in combat they'll likely be Steadfast due to having tons of ranks and they won't often fail if near their General and/or Battle Standard Bearer.

On the topic of Fantatics, I'm wondering how Daemons would best go about dealing with 'em. We don't have anything all that cheap to draw the crazy little buggers out...
 

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They may not be cheap, but furies are pretty worthless (compared to the rest of the army). Daemons actually have it pretty good, fanatic-wise. Everybody has a ward save and nobody panics. Granted, it's better to trigger the fanatics early, but you're gonna want to get to grips with him, so you're gonna have to suck up some damage.
 

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With deamons you have the benefit of terror causing monsters too, drop 1 8" away and watch the gobbo's run away, the chance of all the fanatics getting close enough to do damage is remote as 7" is the average on 2d6 and you still have a ward save for any that get to you.
 

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Terror doesnt do much in the new rules- it has no aura effect anymore (that I could see). DoC have 2 good options for drawing fanatics- furies and sacrificial tzeentch heralds. Fly up to 1" from the enemy (or beond if you can manage it) so that you will keep triggering the fanatics of lots of different units and only fanatics that role 8+" will hit you (since you then keep flying and move over them).

Gotta say that anything that causes a panic check auto-matically is really fun against a goblin army: things like braingobbler and burning head. Seeing someone's face as their unit of 20 with 3 fanatics runs away... more then half the points in the unit gone in 1 go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I found last night that 50 skeletons with the banner giving them regen and a vamp giving -1 ld to everything in 6" is awesome! Also raise dead might not give you many zombies but 1 is all it takes.
 

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Zombie dragon vamp raising a couple of zombies within 8" of the goblins would be funny- especially now you could reasomably get one without forcing it to be your general (the biggest downside to taking one in 7th).
 

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There is a magic item that can help too get a cheap character with flying carpet and doomfire ring, fly to the side of a goblin unit and fire a burning head directly across hopefully hitting 2 units and making them take panic tests or give the character a decent ward and fly across the front of his army.
The thing about fanatics is the earlier they're released the more chance they'll damage their own army or at least seriously disrupt movement (as if animosity wasn't enough)so the best thing to do is run at the gobbo units as quick as possible with units that are virtually worthless or at least expendable and watch them whizz around at a safe distance.
 

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Being a night goblin player my self I would say the best way to deal with them is with cheap and cheerful units. Free company would fill this role very nicely. Once the fanatics are out the of the way slam a unit of knights in the front of the unit. You'll win the combat and the rest of the goblins will probably flee :eek:k:

Skar
 

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Problem with free company is that they are just basic men... so are very slow. They wouldnt get the fanatics to be released until turns 2-4 (depending on the O&G movement)... I'm happy to sacrifice a 100pt unit if it forces the release of fanatics from multiple units very early in the game, with my HEs my eagle (or 2) would certainly just suicide to force release very very early- hopefully the first unit doesnt roll an 8+ for movement (or doesnt take my 3W) so I can get a second unit to release too.... if IM playing a nooby goblin player who has just shoved 3 fanatics in eash unit then if my eagle can trigger 2 units before dying I've forced the premature release of 150pts of fanatics... that will do nothing at all to me but might kill a lot of O&G but will certainly screw up their advance in the first few turns.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
See that's what I was thinking but I got a lot of nay sayers at my local B&M.

Besides, land right and you can provoke fanatics from 3 units. go right up the center of a unit and trigger the two next to it too. This guy runs ten wide blocks of bows and spears as close to eachother as legal, often closer.

Here's a question. Do flyers have to stop 8" away or do fanatics release when they land at the end of their move. Call me crazy but if I'm flying, I'm not going to stop and land before the end of my move so that you drunken gobos can run at me then take off to finish my trip. That's just dumb!
 

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In the old edition flyers still got hit by the fanatics so I assume that this edition it will be the same.
Free company are the best option if your going for a static empire army as you should get at least 2 turns of marching before the fanatics are released meaning 16" leeway between your good troops and the fanatics.
If your going for an offensive type Empire force then it's either a cheap captain on pegasus, a unit of light cav(to expensive for my taste) failing that for about 100pts you can get a unit of 10 huntsmen that can scout in the setup, march in the first turn and given the width of the unit trigger at least 3 units worth of fanatics by the gobbo's next turn.
 

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yeah you do stop 8" away and the fanatics are released- so you have to live through the fanatics of 1 unit before you can trigger another (unless you can pick a spot exactly 8" from 2 units).
 

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Correct me if I am wrong but can't fanatics be released at any range under 8 inches. You are all assuming that you are master range guessers who can plonk units exactly where you want them.
 

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Correct me if I am wrong but can't fanatics be released at any range under 8 inches. You are all assuming that you are master range guessers who can plonk units exactly where you want them
They are released as soon as the enemy gets within 8 inches. So you stop the opponents movement phase and then roll to see how far the fanatics go. Then roll for wounds, armour etc etc

Skar
 
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