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Anti...anything 1850 Eldar

1386 Views 20 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  moc065
Ok after playing my first game against the nids, I have decided to try something a little more "all comers" style.

HQ
88-Farseer (Runes of Wit, Guide, Singing Spear)
88-Farseer (Runes of Wit, Guide, Singing Spear)

Troops
192-8 Pathfinders
192-8 Pathfinders
192-8 Pathfinders
120-5 Pathfinders

92-10 Storm Guardians (2 Fusion guns)
170-Wave Serpent (Bright Lance, Shuriken Cannon, Star Engines, Spirit Stones)

92-10 Storm Guardians (2 Fusion guns)
170-Wave Serpent (Bright Lance, Shuriken Cannon, Star Engines, Spirit Stones)

Heavy Support
150-3 War Walkers (Scatter Lasers, Spirit Stones)
150-3 War Walkers (Scatter Lasers, Spirit Stones)
150-3 War Walkers (Scatter Lasers, Spirit Stones)

I would keep the Farseer behind the Walkers and give them guide, thats 24 S6 shots with re-roles for 2 squads and another 24 shots from the last squad. These would kill guants/infantry. The pathfinders would take out the big stuff like Carnifax or other such things. The wave serpent and storm guardian will serve as my anti-tank units, although the war walkers can easily shoot down low armour vehicles.
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HQ
88-Farseer (Runes of Wit, Guide, Singing Spear)
88-Farseer (Runes of Wit, Guide, Singing Spear)
Two of these guys are just not required.... and RoWit are not that great considering they give you a better chance to succeed and a lot bebtter chance of taking a Perils of the Warp hit.

Guide is misplaced anyway, as you won't need it with that many shots, whereas something like Fortune on your Pathfinders would just be better. In the long run though, your best bet would be to simply drop both of these guys and replace them with Eldrad.
Troops
192-8 Pathfinders
192-8 Pathfinders
192-8 Pathfinders
120-5 Pathfinders
These guys are great, but 4 squads of 6 each is more than enough and would give you a few extra points to use on other things.
92-10 Storm Guardians (2 Fusion guns)
170-Wave Serpent (Bright Lance, Shuriken Cannon, Star Engines, Spirit Stones)
If your using Star-Engines, and or the vehicle gets shaken, then the Weapons are pretty useless. Thus I really advocate for minimizing the weapons to something long ranged for the TL part (EML, BL, or Scatter) and just leave the Catipults alone. It saves you points in the long run and onve these guys gets close enough to drop the payload, then the guns are pretty welld one their job anyway.
92-10 Storm Guardians (2 Fusion guns)
170-Wave Serpent (Bright Lance, Shuriken Cannon, Star Engines, Spirit Stones)
Same as above; but you should consider a little variety here.... as two squads that work well on some things, also means two squads that don't work so well on other things.
Heavy Support
150-3 War Walkers (Scatter Lasers, Spirit Stones)
150-3 War Walkers (Scatter Lasers, Spirit Stones)
150-3 War Walkers (Scatter Lasers, Spirit Stones)
Have you ever considered EML's instead of Scatterlasers for at least one of the squads.... the added range can keep them out of harms way, the option of big template or high power shot is wicked for all comers lists, and the added AP value is just one more bonus for a very minimal points increase.

The army looks like it has potential; but at present I would say that it would be for fun games only as I don't see it competing well with any really fast armies, or really CC orientated armies, etc.
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The farseer need to give guide to the walkers because they hit on 4s, thats half my shots going to waste. Yes but you have 176pts tied up in these two "soft" figures, when you could just take Eldrad fro a minimal points increase and gain a lot more, T=4, up to 3 powers a turn, any poer you like, and he is no CC slouch.

Yeah, as I said earlier I will proble drop 2 squads for something else. Im toying with the idea of dropping the guardians, wave serpent, and one walker squad for a falcon, harlies, and fire dragons. Dont think I can get the points but ill try. Then the army would be better equiped for anti-tank and CC. It would also give my opponent more targets to wory about. Harlies will allow me to fend off the closest assualting unit while my pathfindes walkers and pathfinders can blow apart any other. The firedragons in the serpent can SE across to a good spot and wait to strike. Now the I just said that....where did that falcon go? Is it better for me to put the harlies into a Falcon or just fleet them? with a shadow seer they cant be targetted for more than 24 inches. I think I should drop the other serpent and put my dragons into the falcon. Hmmm or maybe drop the falcon and get 2 fire dragons squads in 2 wave serpents? what do you think?
Biggest problem I have with Serpents is that they are not scoring units... and they go down easier than a Falcon (with defensive package)... Your Harlie and Dragon idea may be a good one, throw it on paper (re-write the list) and lets see where it goes.

My main Idea was to use my guardian/wave serpents for my anti-tank. If they are not destroyed by turn 2, the serpents can do some damage with BL. The other reason is that the guardians are MUCH cheaper then fire dragons. And with 4 melta weapons, I can still kill some tanks. Their main purpose is to die and die well.
Guardians are running you 92 points, when (97) 5 Fire Dragons, Exarch with Dragons Breath Flamer and Crackshot. Is only 5 points more and gives you so much more Anti-tank potential as well as the flamer for use on units in cover, not to mention all the BS is higher, and the figures are a little tougher (not much). The Serpent is cheaper than a Falcon (which I do for 185pts); but the trade off is loss of resilience and a Scoring Unit.

The walkers can be outfitted with anything I really need. If Im facing a mech army, I can drop some points elsewhere and give them ELM or If im facing chaos, I can use Star cannons and get 12 S6 AP2 shots from 2 squads. I believe that would hurt a little more than a Dark Reaper squad for a lot less points.
I have no issue with the Warwalkers. I just feel that you can outfit them as three different units all the time.... and it would work well. They could also be run almost as well with Vypers.... The points I spoke to you about (creation there of) could easily be made by trimming your PF's down to 6 figures each, which avout 120pts saved to use on Eldrad, 2 Falcons instead of Serpents, and FD's instead of Guardians.... do the math and check it out... you may actually like it.
HQ
Big E
Elite
5 FD's, Ex with DBF and CS
5 FD's, Ex with DBF and CS
Troops
6 PF's
6 PF's
6 PF's
6 PF's
FA
2 Vyper squad with Scatter and Shuri-can
2 Vyper squad with Scatter and Shuri-can
2 Vyper squad with EML's
HS
Falcon
Falcon
2 Warwalkers, Scatters

I think its pretty close to 1850. Gives you close to the same output of shots, more options, more mobility, more scoring units, more anti-tank.
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HQ
(210) Big E This guy can hang back and Fortune pathfinders or guide Vypers/Warwalkers as needed, not to mention his ability to shut down enemy Psychers (RoWard), or his other powers, or his personnal abilities.
Elite
(113) 6 FD's, Ex with DBF and CS
(113) 6 FD's, Ex with DBF and CS Both of these units go into the Falcons and they are great for anti-tank. But they don't stop there, they can take out small termie groups, and if use together can be as erious threat to most infantry squads. Also the Flamers are solid against any enemy in cover.
Troops
(120) 6 PF's
(120) 6 PF's
(120) 6 PF's
(120) 6 PF's I think you know how to basically use these guys; but don't forget, they can actually get 1st turn assaults if you infiltrate them, use their scout move, and get first turn to move and assault (good against things like Necron Destroyers).
FA
(140) 2 Vyper squad with Scatter and Shuri-can
(140) 2 Vyper squad with Scatter and Shuri-can
(130) 2 Vyper squad with EML's There are no vehicle upgrades on any of these. Use range/terrain to keep them working, and through mass fire they can often eliminate anything that would get a return shot.
HS
(200) Falcon, pulse, Shuri-can, catipult, HF, SS, VE and Star Engine
(200) Falcon, pulse, Shuri-can, catipult, HF, SS, VE and Star Engine Run them right across the table on turn 1 (use divination to re-located them accordingly if you need to), and set them up so that your rear armour is facing the enemies table edge. On turn 2, the FD's can get out before the falcons move to shoot anything appropriate, or they whole thing can re-locate up to 12" and then have the FD's get out and shoot. The Flacons are mostly for Transport and to make enemies do target priority tests if they want to shoot the FD's, also move you Falcons to be between the FD's and the enemy target so that its almost impossible to assault the Fd's.
(120) 2 Warwalkers, ScattersAgain, I don't go for any vehicle upgrades here, just use the 36" range and mass fire to eliminate priority targets first. Also consider the fact that Eldrad's divination can re-locate this unit pre-game, and they have a scout move on top of that.

Totals 1846pts, 12 scoring units, 47 Figures This may not be a Competiion level list; but bet it could do well enough regardless of enemy.

I had the points (when I did the math, so I added a couple FD's) The army has no Assault to speak of; but with the 44+ str=6 shots, all the FD's and PF's shooting, etc... I think that it may not need any Assault. Just stay away from certain enemies while you work on other things.... and use decent target priority to trim the enemy down each turn. With some really Resilient units, and some supper fast and shooty units I think this army is pretty cool. I also hope this kind of stuff is helping you out, as I really like the Alaitoc/Saim-Hann blend you have going.
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There is nothing wrong with that idea as long as you balance the points between the 2 new units correctly and configure them effeciently.
As both Harlies and the Fireprism are excellent units as are the FD's and the Falcon, their just different and need to be set-up and used accordingly.

Write up the list and your ideas for the use, and I'll go over some tactics with you, if you like.

CaHG
HQ
210-The so called "Big E"
OK, this guy is very solid; but part of the reason I suggested him was because you had a bit of an "Anvil" for him to move with, that has slowly been remmoved from your list and I think you sould probably put it back (more to follow). Right now, I see him being used for Devination, and maybe Fortuning some Pathfinders and some guide use; but overall I think he would be more effective if he had something that couls stay close to him (more to follow).
Troops
152-10 Dire Avengers (Exarch, DA SC, BladeStorm)
155-WaveSerpent (Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon, VE, SS)
Here is where I would get the stuff to go with Big-E. Exchange the DA for
(153) 10 Gaurdian Defenders with a Brightlance platform, and a Concealing Warlock with a Singing Spear.
(155) Avatar.
And here is the reasoning, Eldrad and Avatar are a serious issue for almost any enemy to deal with, and having 11 more guys around them only helps you. Not to mention that no-one will run (Fearless bubble), so your enemy has to kill all 11 guys before the BL stops firing. This may not appear to be a good CC unit; but believe me when I say that it can do a lot more than many players think. You also get another Scoring Unit with the Avatar, and it would sort out some of your Nid-zilla issues.
144-6 Path Finders
144-6 Path Finders
144-6 Path Finders
I don't have any issues with these guys, Unless you want to swap them for something else, which I don't think you need to.
Elites
118-6 Fire Dragons (Exarch, Dragon Breath, Crack Shot)
178-6 Harlequin (5 Harle. Kisses, Shadow Seer, Troupe Master)
Check your math, the FD's are 113pts, so there is where I got the extra point to pay for the Gaurdian Defender Squad I mentioned above (and 4pts to spare). I have never needed the Troupe Master in the Harlequin squad but others will swear by him. I would drop him and add a 6th Kiss just to save the 16pts (gives you 20pts to spare now - more on this below),
Fast Attack
65-Vyper (ELM)
65-Vyper (ELM)
60-Vyper (Scatter Laser)
I would seriously like to get a Shuri-cannon to go with the Scatter Vyper so this is one more reason that I would drop the Troupe Master. So this would put you at only 10Pts left to use.
Heavy Support
210-Falcon (Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon, HF, VE, SE, SS)
205-Falcon (Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon, HF, VE, SS)
With that last 10pts, I would make both Falcons with Scatter and Shuri-cannon and you list would be evened out at 1850pts again. It would give you a little better early game shooting overall, and since you said that you wanted to be a little less CC aggressive, I feel it would be better in the long run.
The Harlequin move up in Falcon number 2 and assualt in turn 2. Then they work their magic in CC, moving from target to target with H&R. The falcon then moves behind cover and attacks where needed. The DA wait for a promising infantry unit and wipe them out. The Pathfinders either pick off Harle. leaftovers or go after HQ and tough units. The Vypers stay back and shoot tanks/Infantry and wait to score in missions. Mean While, the Fire Dragons move across the board in the other Falcon with SE in turn one. Turn two, they move where needed to do same damage to tanks/tough squads. If I work it right, I could move my way with the Harles from squad to squad until im in the same general area of the DA, creating a good striking force to clean up whatever is left. Eldrad will either hang back and help the vypers and pathfinders, move up near the harlies, or go with the DA. Not sure exactly what good he is in this type of an army, maybe you can enlighten me?

Anyway, I think this is a solid list against most opponents. But, I still see trouble going against a nidzilla type army. Any Suggestions?
Anyway, your tactics would change a little, in that the Avatar and Guardians provide the Anvil as their Fortuned and advancing with Eldrad. I truely suggest that you read up on both of these figures in your Codex as their combined effects are simpy "Gross". Everything else would work pretty well the same, except that now you will have the PF's and Vypers Harrassing/pinning, and the Falcon Squads working together to take out tanks and/or infantry squads in a piecemeal manner.

Here is a little note on some tactica for you.
T-1: Falcon with FD's moves forward (possible Tank-shocking) to get into advanced possition while the Falcon with Harlies moves up as well (possibly only 12" to maintain shooting options) but just to set up for the next turn.
T-2: Falcon with FD's now moves again to get FD's into position, after they dis-embark the FD's can still shoot the intended target (with their Falcon helping if needed). Meanwhile the other Falcon dis-embarks the Harlies before moving, it then moves to get between the intended target and the rest of the enemy army (to force LD tests for anyone wishing to shoot Harlies/FD's and maybe even forcing them to move around it in order to assault). The Harlies with their Move,fleet,assault (13-18") can now strike the unit that the FD's knocked out of their tank (Landraider with Termies), or simply assault whatever intended target is at hand.

Oh and don't forget that since your "Anvil" is moving forward during this, it is possible to actually get that part of the army working concurrently (as well as your harrasing elements) so that you effectively isolate one or two of the enemy units at a time to completely distroy them.
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