Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,007 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Well not just evolution, but I had to keep the title short. This is a thread similar to:
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49144
and:
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58292
You know the layout. I don't expect this to be nearly as popular and heated as the other 2 threads.

I've been a bit annoyed by some of the misunderstandings people have about Evolution (and biology in general). Particularly in the Religion vs. Evolution debate. To try to 'help out' in a loose sense I'm happy to answer any questions people may have on Evolution. Keep in mind I'm still only a uni student so I'm no expert on Evolution... That's the dream.

Just a side note. I deal more with the nitty gritty stuff like evolutionary mechanisms, cellular biochemistry, molecular biology plus a bit of anatomy and physiology. I've only done a little study on the history of evolution, so I can't really give a detailed history of say Charles Darwin or Watson and Crick (Except to say that Watson and Crick really fucked over Rosalind Franklin.). I do know the basics though.

Questions? Thoughts? Comments? Complaints?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
I accept evolution as a force of nature but one thing that drives me nuts is when people seem to think that evolution is things moving to a higher state or improving. When really mutations and chance drive it and there is no "progress"

I have seen both ID people and evolutionists make this mistake and it's really annoying

*edit*
I am curious why you didn't put this in the other sections like the other ones?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
Ah finally someone who can help me, been trying to get my Pikachu to evolve for some time now, but the selfish little bastard just won't co-operate, please help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,244 Posts
I accept evolution as a force of nature but one thing that drives me nuts is when people seem to think that evolution is things moving to a higher state or improving. When really mutations and chance drive it and there is no "progress"

I have seen both ID people and evolutionists make this mistake and it's really annoying

*edit*
I am curious why you didn't put this in the other sections like the other ones?
living beings do get better through evolution but only better in terms of their environment. For example, a polar bear is great at living in the arctic but it wouldn't last very long at all in a jungle. But yes evolution doesn't mean things naturally progress to a higher state (therefore there is no devolution).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,925 Posts
living beings do get better through evolution but only better in terms of their environment. For example, a polar bear is great at living in the arctic but it wouldn't last very long at all in a jungle. But yes evolution doesn't mean things naturally progress to a higher state (therefore there is no devolution).

You seem to be talking about two different things....it's a little confusing.

As I understand it, mutations are not necessarily beneficial. Due to natural pressures, those mutations that do offer an advantage tend to be selected for, though this isn't always the case.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,007 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Sorry I've been gone for so long. I had a lab report to write.

I accept evolution as a force of nature but one thing that drives me nuts is when people seem to think that evolution is things moving to a higher state or improving. When really mutations and chance drive it and there is no "progress"
It's a common mistake. Evolution is, in simple terms; genetic change over time. Due to selective (and possibly sexual) pressures evolution usually results in a species becoming more 'fit' in it's environment.

Mutations are what allow evolution to occur. Natural Selection and Random Genetic Drift are really what 'drive' evolution. Obviously other things drive evolution too (sexual selection, mutations to a small degree, recombination, etc).

Ah finally someone who can help me, been trying to get my Pikachu to evolve for some time now, but the selfish little bastard just won't co-operate, please help.
Have you tried using a Thunder Stone? If he keeps pissing you off remember you'll have the last laugh. Most rodents develop multiple tumours as they get old.

living beings do get better through evolution but only better in terms of their environment. For example, a polar bear is great at living in the arctic but it wouldn't last very long at all in a jungle. But yes evolution doesn't mean things naturally progress to a higher state (therefore there is no devolution).
You are correct sai. Just be careful how you use the word evolution. As you're probably aware organisms themselves don't evolve. Evolution occurs inter-generationally, not intra-generationally. I suspect you already knew that though, and in everyday conversation it's perfectly acceptable to use it in that context.

That is a very important point. Evolution can never be 'reversed'. We are descendant from a common ancestor with chimpanzees, but humans could never evolve into that ancestor. With simpler life like prokaryotes (bacteria) this is actually possible, but still highly unlikely.

As I understand it, mutations are not necessarily beneficial. Due to natural pressures, those mutations that do offer an advantage tend to be selected for, though this isn't always the case.
Yes you are correct. Mutations are simply; Changes in an organism's genome (DNA or RNA). They usually have a deleterious (bad) or no effect on the organism's fitness. In very rare cases a mutation will actually be 'useful'. If that is the case it will usually, but not always, be 'selected for'.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,122 Posts
How can you as a 19 year old be informed enough to answer questions about evolution?
how can my brother who is only 19 know more about trains and there mechnics than over half the people who work with them?

Some people exel at some things and fall behind in others. As you can tell i lack in my language and communication hence my constant spelling mistkaes but i make up with it with my personalty i'm told. It's ver dismisive to say that someone isn't QUALIFED becuase of there age. Need i point at the 16 year old who plays for Southamton who had his very first full game for them and scored!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,634 Posts
How can you as a 19 year old be informed enough to answer questions about evolution?
He outlined that in the original post.

If he's studying it he's probably more suited to answer questions than many of us, purely through the sheer virtue of information retention.

He also may be a 'highly evolved'* 19 year old :p

(*please note you should never use highly evolved in a sentence, it shows a poor understanding of evolution!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
@Jaws, please, please, please use mozilla firefox or some other web browser that has a spell-checker built into it and pay attention to the red squiggly lines underneath words.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,244 Posts
@Jaws, please, please, please use mozilla firefox or some other web browser that has a spell-checker built into it and pay attention to the red squiggly lines underneath words.
firefox has a spell checker? what the hell am i usng then :shok:
 

·
Slave to Heresy!
Joined
·
8,803 Posts
how can my brother who is only 19 know more about trains and there mechnics than over half the people who work with them?

Some people exel at some things and fall behind in others. As you can tell i lack in my language and communication hence my constant spelling mistkaes but i make up with it with my personalty i'm told. It's ver dismisive to say that someone isn't QUALIFED becuase of there age. Need i point at the 16 year old who plays for Southamton who had his very first full game for them and scored!!!
Athletic ability and football skill is fuck all to do with age.

Of course he isn't "qualified" to answer questions about evolution.

At 19 you haven't had time to study something to the level required to "inform" people about it. You aren't old enough to do a masters or doctorate... You know the square root of fuck all on the subject.

Your post has reinforced my statement, cheers :grin:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,976 Posts
While he couldn't be a teacher or lecturer on the subject yet, he is certainly qualified to inform people. Evolution is really quite a simple concept, though it can be difficult to grasp and understand the effects of it - you certainly don't need a PHD in evolutionary biology to be able to explain that concept to others. At any rate, the other threads started in the same vein as this one (on Christianity and Athiesm) weren't started by experts, but rather just people who feel they have a decent understanding of the subject, and a willingness to impart knowledge, and answer questions, that people might have.

Besides which, at 19, I probably knew more about evolutionary biology than I do today, as I was in the middle of my Biomedical Science degree, and the knowledge was fresh in my mind - nothing like exams to focus the mind :laugh:.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,007 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
How can you as a 19 year old be informed enough to answer questions about evolution?
Very true, but what's the harm in trying? Also this thread is open for others to answer/discuss/comment.

Besides which, at 19, I probably knew more about evolutionary biology than I do today, as I was in the middle of my Biomedical Science degree, and the knowledge was fresh in my mind - nothing like exams to focus the mind :laugh:.
Haha I'm going for the exact same degree. It seems to be a very popular degree nowadays.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,277 Posts
Hmm this thread seems to have taken a somewhat negative tilt.. oh well while I'm here I may as well ask some vague pointless opinions on the subject.

1: I really don't think at our current level of understanding of the minutia that drive evolution, that anyone is really qualified to talk about the topic as if they where a authority. After all the most recent material examining epigenetics and other phenomena related to what we call evolution, very clearly serves to illustrate how little we really know about the mechanisms that drive evolutionary change.

2: Still almost anyone who as been educated on the subject, should have enough knowledge to discuss common misconceptions about evolution (After all it doesn't take someone with a masters degree to show the flaws in the intelligent design argument).

3: Honestly everyone should relax this isn't a scientific forum, so stop idiotically waving credentials around, and have a casual discussion on evolution. I mean no one is grading this random thread on a miniature gaming form.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,976 Posts
A question to ask (may even be on topic :shok: ), I was wondering how evolution has affected humans recently, if at all.

By recently, I mean the last 10,000 years, roughly the time that civilisations began to really establish themselves...

If you could answer I would be interested.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
795 Posts
well we're gotten fatter, lazier, taller, self righteous, pompous, developed mental disorders, serial killing, suicide, unprovoked murder, enjoyable yet unnecessary pleasurable sounds known as music, etc etc etc etc
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
He also may be a 'highly evolved'* 19 year old :p

(*please note you should never use highly evolved in a sentence, it shows a poor understanding of evolution!)
Why is this?
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top