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2,998 Posts
Do you still play Katie or have you moved onto other systems?
Annual Price Increase, List in first post
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5,539 Posts
I play with four friends who are all newer to the hobby once a week or so. I just use the stuff I have already (which is a lot. Over 5K points of Marines and 3K of Daemons) and we have a good time. Mostly though, I play Starcraft 2 and League of Legends in my spare time these days. Both are cheap in comparison to 40k.
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2,976 Posts
Is this a good time to mention that Privateer Press is having a Summer Sale for Warmachine and Hordes? $115-$130 gets you a pretty nice 25 point list (quite well thought out lists actually), and a free copy of the main rulebook (Warmachine Prime or Hordes Primal). A caster, 2-3 Jacks, 1-2 units and 2-3 solos to kick start your game.
/Just saying
/Just saying
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302 Posts
I agree but unless there is an existing index, how would you do that? At least with CPI to the Tactical Marine pack you wouldn't have to deal with something that wasn't as difficult to measure.
Also, wouldn't it follow that if you made lots of bad models that broke regularly and sold them cheaply, it could benefit the company? Basically, you eliminate a secondary market because the models fall apart--it happened with textbooks. Mind you, the internet ruined that and students are different from hobbyists but couldn't that make sense nevertheless?
Yep, seen that:biggrin:Is this a good time to mention that Privateer Press is having a Summer Sale for Warmachine and Hordes? $115-$130 gets you a pretty nice 25 point list (quite well thought out lists actually), and a free copy of the main rulebook (Warmachine Prime or Hordes Primal).
/Just saying
I'm only waiting for the Colossals myself as I have 130 pts of Khador so don't need anymore than the Colossal to get to 150. Several mates are buying lots of PP stuff at the moment though.
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468 Posts
I know loads of vets that dump huge ammounts of money every few months so the idea that vets don't spend much is imo a load of crap. Almost every vet/regular is playing warmahordes atm and has done so solidly for 2 months since a new FLGS opened here in sheffield (which i work at, yay for staff discount!).I think the huge problem is that they don't give a fuck about us experienced hobbyists, because we tend to spend little and often, while little timmy might come in twice a year and spend hundreds in massive splurges. it saddens me, even 4 years ago it was never like this.
We've sold tons of PP stock to our vets (£1000's worth) and majority of the GW stock sold (which is still significant mind) is almost all to people who we hardly ever see in the store. However those people are asking for us to give them intros into dystopian wars and/or warmachine, so were seeing more and more convert to other systems and people are loving it.
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5,539 Posts
Yeah, I honestly think that in a few years GW is going to have a serious problem on its hands in the form of competition from other companies. Games Workshop is big and they definitely dominate the market, but if they keep pissing off their customer base while other companies continually churn out similar quality product at significantly cheaper prices I can see it becoming a real problem for them. Time will tell I guess.
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4,304 Posts
My local games shop is closing its doors because of the high australian prices. None of his gw stock moves even though he offers a standard discount on gw rrp. I try to support him (even bought his last land raider and some bikes) but he sees it as a loosing battle. He even asked gw what they were planning to do and they said 'nothing'. So closes the only games shop in Townsville. All we have now is toyworld with a couple of boxes on the shelf and a comic shop with the same. Hows that for 'Supporting' the local games shops.
Good work gw. Nice models, cool game, no brains in management.
Good work gw. Nice models, cool game, no brains in management.
It's a similar story with one of my mates who owns a LGS. He's not closing as he does very good business with most Gaming systems, but he stopped wasting shelf space on GW product ages ago as it wasn't selling in enough volume.
He's told me that it's a similar story with many other LGS's in Aus...quite a sad state of affairs I think.
He's told me that it's a similar story with many other LGS's in Aus...quite a sad state of affairs I think.
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2,755 Posts
GW hates the Aussies it seems same with Canadians... Here I am bitching about a price increase but I get an ace discount at one shop with little product, long wait times, and alzheimers when it comes to personal orders. He sold the three venoms I ordered last weekend, now, I'll have to shell out MORE money for them next week! The other shop I used to frequent has vast amounts of product, four paint lines and NO discount. While I hate spending the money to get what I need when I need it, it's THERE when I want it. I'm afraid next week really will stop me from buying for a long time! as NO discount will really hurt. The discount from the other joint will be just a bandaid this time around for me at the other shop. I am not too miffed on some of the price increases, but, to see a land raider at 25 bucks less than a Baneblade is really disheartening. I'm starting to feel like that 12 year old kid I once was who couldn't afford shit cause I was poor. Now I'm older, have a job and still am poor, but I could manage my addiction to this hobby with some ease up until next week... fuckin lame GW, fuckin Lame!
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128 Posts
GW sucks... This is a total screwing. $82.50 for a shitty stormraven. Really? If there was anything you wanted get it NOW... Cause come june GW is gonna pork your wallet, no lube and no reach around.
Personally I already have tons of stuff and refuse to spend a penny on their stuff until they update some of their codexs. this is gonna scare away new players whom are already a little put-out by the current prices.
Edit: I just had to add... F*ck you GW!!!
Personally I already have tons of stuff and refuse to spend a penny on their stuff until they update some of their codexs. this is gonna scare away new players whom are already a little put-out by the current prices.
Edit: I just had to add... F*ck you GW!!!
GW's price structure HAS cost them my money I accept that my hobby spend makes no odds to them. I'm not quitting the hobby, Im not going to another game system but GW and their retailers are seeing a far lower percentage of my spend on the hobby. Ive spent £483.20 on Ebay in the last 60 days (we have 6 armies in the family), I have money to spend, BUT I'm buying secondhand stuff instead of new stuff. I'm handy with the stripper, green stuff and files. 5 years ago I wouldn't touch second hand figures with a barge pole. Today I look around the gw stores and there's relatively little I would consider worth the price. £14.50 for a single inch high plastic space man - Jog on...
GW in the same time period have seen me buy some plastic glue and a few pots of paint (and are just about to see me place a waylands order for a few more of the new paints)
The management are of course completely entitled to price their product however they see fit, Ive got no issues with their doing so, but not every business decision made turns out for the best, far bigger companies than GW have gone under due to bad decisions.
Companies can arrogantly decide that people wont vote with their feet \ wallet in significant numbers dismissing internet grumbles (SOE and star wars galaxies comes to mind). Some companies end up increasing prices with their backs against the wall due to unavoidable cost increases and eventually reach the point where the business is unviable. Take Tin Mining in Cornwall, 4000 years it lasted! None happens today, not because theres no tin, not because nobody uses tin anymore, but production costs outstripped what the market would bear for the finished product.
Some companies end up out innovated or out competed by cheaper \ better alternatives. Take Dinky Toys, they were the number one by a large margin on toy cars, but eventually they were out competed first by domestic production and then by foreign imports. Today there's still plenty of market for Toy cars, but Dinky ceased to exist.
I do not know how much of GWs price structure is forced upon them, what sort of restructuring could be done to reduce costs without impacting customers. What I am sure of though is that endlessly increasing prices and thus reducing customer base is not a sustainable path. Eventually the company will have to significantly cull infrastructure, reduce size and overheads as they become more and more niche. There IS a Market place out there for £5000 watches, and its a profitable market, its just not a large market and doesn't by itself support large chains of high street shops.
Critical mass is the biggest issue they currently face. There comes a point where increasing prices not only reduces the customer base by those who no longer find the product worthwhile value for money, but also start losing those who give up due to a reduced playerbase affecting how many fun games they can find and people to talk to about their hobby etc. Once you start losing players on that basis it becomes more of an avalanche.
As I see it regardless of the reasons for the price increases or how necessary they are, GW's price structure is leaving them well and truly vulnerable to competition.
A well priced, Foreign made, high detail product range with solid fluff and rules could blitz them in the end. Particularly if its something that grew out of an established IP something from a series of highly popular films or video games. Starter sets \ board games sold in regular toy stores, and everything else sold online or through independent local game stores.
I don't bear GW any ill will, Ive enjoyed their products since 1989, but bit by bit things are going beyond what I consider to be worthwhile buying. Waylands and the like have given them a stay of execution but that's only a timelag thing, as is ebay, as new model prices rise so to will ebay prices. Looking back at my history it appears it was 2009 that I last bought a significant amount of new models from waylands even. if a GW landraider goes up to £50. it becomes a £40 waylands land raider which becomes a £30 Ebay pile of junk in need of several hours of hard work fixing. At that point I'm out for good :grin: at least on that model. I really do work on a case by case basis, there's still some products which I wouldn't have any issue buying at GW store prices even, but they are getting fewer and further between.
GW in the same time period have seen me buy some plastic glue and a few pots of paint (and are just about to see me place a waylands order for a few more of the new paints)
The management are of course completely entitled to price their product however they see fit, Ive got no issues with their doing so, but not every business decision made turns out for the best, far bigger companies than GW have gone under due to bad decisions.
Companies can arrogantly decide that people wont vote with their feet \ wallet in significant numbers dismissing internet grumbles (SOE and star wars galaxies comes to mind). Some companies end up increasing prices with their backs against the wall due to unavoidable cost increases and eventually reach the point where the business is unviable. Take Tin Mining in Cornwall, 4000 years it lasted! None happens today, not because theres no tin, not because nobody uses tin anymore, but production costs outstripped what the market would bear for the finished product.
Some companies end up out innovated or out competed by cheaper \ better alternatives. Take Dinky Toys, they were the number one by a large margin on toy cars, but eventually they were out competed first by domestic production and then by foreign imports. Today there's still plenty of market for Toy cars, but Dinky ceased to exist.
I do not know how much of GWs price structure is forced upon them, what sort of restructuring could be done to reduce costs without impacting customers. What I am sure of though is that endlessly increasing prices and thus reducing customer base is not a sustainable path. Eventually the company will have to significantly cull infrastructure, reduce size and overheads as they become more and more niche. There IS a Market place out there for £5000 watches, and its a profitable market, its just not a large market and doesn't by itself support large chains of high street shops.
Critical mass is the biggest issue they currently face. There comes a point where increasing prices not only reduces the customer base by those who no longer find the product worthwhile value for money, but also start losing those who give up due to a reduced playerbase affecting how many fun games they can find and people to talk to about their hobby etc. Once you start losing players on that basis it becomes more of an avalanche.
As I see it regardless of the reasons for the price increases or how necessary they are, GW's price structure is leaving them well and truly vulnerable to competition.
A well priced, Foreign made, high detail product range with solid fluff and rules could blitz them in the end. Particularly if its something that grew out of an established IP something from a series of highly popular films or video games. Starter sets \ board games sold in regular toy stores, and everything else sold online or through independent local game stores.
I don't bear GW any ill will, Ive enjoyed their products since 1989, but bit by bit things are going beyond what I consider to be worthwhile buying. Waylands and the like have given them a stay of execution but that's only a timelag thing, as is ebay, as new model prices rise so to will ebay prices. Looking back at my history it appears it was 2009 that I last bought a significant amount of new models from waylands even. if a GW landraider goes up to £50. it becomes a £40 waylands land raider which becomes a £30 Ebay pile of junk in need of several hours of hard work fixing. At that point I'm out for good :grin: at least on that model. I really do work on a case by case basis, there's still some products which I wouldn't have any issue buying at GW store prices even, but they are getting fewer and further between.
Joined
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659 Posts
I love price hikes... They mean I get to sell my stuff at an even higher price on eBay. Sold my Necrons (3500pts), sisters (3500 pts), Metal GKs (3000 pts), IG aircav (vultures, valkyries, Lightning), and other tidbits... I'm at almost 3000$. My Tau (mostly on sprue, really, just a startup project) and SM will probably follow this year. I'll keep my GKs (plastics) and Lizardman, but won't add anything to them.
Between slow codex/FAQs/rules update, the SoB pseudo-codex debacle, price hikes and international money-exchange profiteering (lesser in Canada than in Oz, but still), GW made me angry/tired/sick enough over the last 10 years to slowly leave the game. My gaming group is doing the same. I'll still read the BL HH novels as avidly and plan to keep buying them. But right now, we'll be playing FF games like Arkham Horror, Horus Heresy, Battlestar Galactica. Cheaper, balanced, fun...
Phil
Between slow codex/FAQs/rules update, the SoB pseudo-codex debacle, price hikes and international money-exchange profiteering (lesser in Canada than in Oz, but still), GW made me angry/tired/sick enough over the last 10 years to slowly leave the game. My gaming group is doing the same. I'll still read the BL HH novels as avidly and plan to keep buying them. But right now, we'll be playing FF games like Arkham Horror, Horus Heresy, Battlestar Galactica. Cheaper, balanced, fun...
Phil
Joined
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5,116 Posts
I don't buy anything direct from GW any more, haven't in ages. Like a few others have mentioned already, I stick to picking stuff up off of Ebay and the like.
I don't think we've reached the point of them pricing themselves out of the market yet but if this continues I can see it happening in the fairly near future. Little Johnny's spending power will only go so far, I've already seen parents wince at the price of minis in store and drag their kids out to shop for toys elsewhere.
I don't think we've reached the point of them pricing themselves out of the market yet but if this continues I can see it happening in the fairly near future. Little Johnny's spending power will only go so far, I've already seen parents wince at the price of minis in store and drag their kids out to shop for toys elsewhere.
Joined
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363 Posts
Honestly, I'm in much the same boat. I was living in the EU for four years and the prices were bad enough there but once I moved back to the US, I just didn't have the coin to keep buying GW stuff frequently. So I spend my time between slowly painting my Flesh Tearers and Tau and playing League. (Speaking of which, what's your Summoner name on there if you don't mind me asking?)
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2,259 Posts
there is a price increase, miniwargaming talked about it a bit, according to them the increases range from 5-20%. Sorry, wasnt sure if that actually got settled yet or not.
Personally I havn't bought a single thing from GW in like two years now I think. I got a few dark eldar for Christmas the year they came out but thats it.
Personally I havn't bought a single thing from GW in like two years now I think. I got a few dark eldar for Christmas the year they came out but thats it.
Joined
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2,452 Posts
I haven't bought anything for myself from GW in over 2 years, I've bought direct only items for the people at the local club who can't do it themselves but other than that nothing. I pretty much only buy from ebay and bits sellers now.
The only thing I've done in a GW has been when Necrons came out, in November I traded in all my unopened SM stuff and last month I traded in all my unopened Tyranid stuff, €1000 worth in total and got Necrons stuff instead. I will be going next month to turn in some unopened IG stuff and to exchange some Necron boxes as I've managed to buy 3 canoptek spyders for $9 each, stalker for $15 and bikes for $15. Will continue to rack up the ebay purchases until I go there and exchange what I have too much of.
I'm looking forwards to the Australian market loss numbers this year, if I'm not mistaken it has gone down by +10% per year over the past 2 years. So if sales have gone down by 10% per year and it's another 10% this year sales will have gone down by 27% or such over the last 3 years. Ebay is all I can say to you Ozzy players.
The only thing I've done in a GW has been when Necrons came out, in November I traded in all my unopened SM stuff and last month I traded in all my unopened Tyranid stuff, €1000 worth in total and got Necrons stuff instead. I will be going next month to turn in some unopened IG stuff and to exchange some Necron boxes as I've managed to buy 3 canoptek spyders for $9 each, stalker for $15 and bikes for $15. Will continue to rack up the ebay purchases until I go there and exchange what I have too much of.
I'm looking forwards to the Australian market loss numbers this year, if I'm not mistaken it has gone down by +10% per year over the past 2 years. So if sales have gone down by 10% per year and it's another 10% this year sales will have gone down by 27% or such over the last 3 years. Ebay is all I can say to you Ozzy players.
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