[laegim]

So today I wanted to rant about getting ****** over by GW employees. The Kustom Force Field is a fun topic at all parties, what with its ambiguity and none existent FAQ. Seriously, does GW actually get feedback from player or do they just "Hurp-a-derp Quality assurance, play testing, what are these things and why do we need them?". Alright... well that's not my real rant so let me get to it.

KFF grants all units within 6 inches 5+ cover save and obscures vehicles. My friends and I of course argued over when a unit does and does not get cover. I (as the Ork player) of course believe a unit is within 6 inches if a single model from that unit is. He argued that since the KFF is cover, a majority of the unit needed to be within the bubble (really bad for me) but that units behind it would have a chunk of cover in front of them (Not bad for me). We went to a GW employee for clarification.

Lo, and the GW employee granted us his wisdom and said these words. MODELS within 6 inches get a cover save, models outside do not. Seriously... what the **** is that about? models? That's the one answer I couldn't possibly have imagined. He was like "hey, these rules that are written here, the ones that say it grants it to the unit... no that's bull, your codex doesn't actually contain rules". He claimed any model within the unit could have the cover save, but the models outside of the KFF range, be they in the same unit or not, couldn't claim it. Now we're no longer following what I consider the typical rule for a power or ability that works within 6 inches nor the rules for cover. We've entered new grounds where we don't apply the cover rules to cover, nor the rules as written to a power. I wanted someone to take a tire iron to his head so he'd think twice about disregarding any possible rules that are written in the rule books... or perhaps one to mine so I could understand his logic.

Rant over, Thank you.

 

[SGMAlice]

Typical GW Employee idiocy. I have recently been a victim t fo it too.

The KFF grants a cover save to any unit within 6 inches
UNIT UNIT UNIT
not model, so...
You follow the rules for cover saves like you would for a normal piece of Cover and its viability at granting you the save:

If More Than 50% Of The Units Models Are Behind The Terrain (Or Within The 6 Inches) Then Save Is Allowed, If Less Than 50% are Behind The Terrain (Or Outside The 6 Inches) Then The Save Is Not Allowed.

It sucks, i know, I have a few of them myself

SGMAlice

 

[jaws900]

sounds like many of the other guys. 1 guy at my lcoal was controlling a mega battle for LOTR and said that my oppents Warg rider got 2 attacks. I rightly asked why when i charged and he only had one attack....he said you combine there attacks. Did the guy even read the rules? This is why when they have a Mega battle they ask me if i'm going to be there as i'm the know it all guy on LOTR and the onyl one who actualy can/does play.

Anyway i don't know much about Orks but from what it sounds like i would let you have the cover save as i belive that was what they would have wanted it to do when they wrtoe the rules and in the spirit of fairness.

 

[Vaz]

You forget that some GW employees are chosen not because they're geeks who read the books to learn the ins and outs of their products rules, especially when versions change biennially and they've got 40 different armies to learn the rules for. They need to be good at working with the public, and not flying off the handle at the littlest thing.

He may just have been doing an RAI as how the staff play their games, or the what made sense.



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[ChaosSpaceMarineGuy]

That GW "official" is an idiot. You would get the cover save b/c it states and I quote, "A kustom force field gives all units within 6 inches a cover save of 5+. Vehicles within 6 inches are treated as being an obscured target."

Now, as long as you have at least 1 model from whichever unit within that 6'' of the kff then the unit would get the cover save.

 

[SGMAlice]

That GW "official" is an idiot. You would get the cover save b/c it states and I quote, "A kustom force field gives all units within 6 inches a cover save of 5+. Vehicles within 6 inches are treated as being an obscured target."

Now, as long as you have at least 1 model from whichever unit within that 6'' of the kff then the unit would get the cover save.

'Unit' is the operative word here people. trust me. Terrain cover save rules apply, as i stated ^up there

SGMAlice

 

[laegim]

eh, I didn't post this to argue rules though, mostly just to vent. I admit the KFF is kind of a toss up, though the GW employee's interpretation seems to contradict the wording of the KFF and totally blew me away. I appreciate that people were actually willing to read my little rage out there, and especially those that can sympathize the anguish and frustration.

 

[buckythefly]

Yeah, The force field isn't that hard to understand, Its half+ of the unit in the bubble you get the save, any vehicle within the bubble at all is obscured.

I can't believe people argue about it...there are way worse rules to fight over.

 

[bitsandkits]

To be honest the GW employee's interpretation makes the most sense, its a force field with a limited range, therefore only those within its radius would get the benefit, besides if your gonna play in a GW shop its GW house rules if things are not clear or open to intermpretation.



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[GrimzagGorwazza]

MODELS within 6 inches get a cover save, models outside do not. Seriously... what the **** is that about? models?

IIrc this is exactly how the KFF in third ed operated.

 

[ChaosSpaceMarineGuy]

@SGMAlice- no I do not trust you or those gw "officials" b/c you're wrong. Read it as written. If a rule should be used as intended then why not write it that way. It is dumb, but ya'll can play it wrong for all I care.

@bitsandkits- to be fair since they were playing a friendly game, the GW worker probably gave them more of an opinion of what he/she thought was right.

 

[Culler]

I for one take a literal interpretation of the KFF rules. The rule says if a unit is within 6", they get a 5+ cover save. Within does not mean 'completely within' or 'at least half within', it means within. So if any part of a unit is within 6", that unit is within 6", like if only my hand was touching you, I would be within your personal bubble despite not grinding my whole body against you (which would also be me within your personal bubble, but just a portion of me is enough to constitute "within".)

 

[chromedog]

If it was meant to be a "all in" not "one in, all in" rule then they wouldn't already have an 'out' fot the issue.
Objective claiming: If one member of a unit is within 3" of an objective - THE UNIT can claim it, which implies that if one is 'in' then all are 'in'.

If one member of a unit is within that 6" bubble, the UNIT gets it.

Non-vehicle units get the 5+. Vehicles count as obscured, so get 4+.

GW redshirts are about as wrong as they can get. Beaten only by Blackshirts.

 

[hippypancake]

I asked a employee about the same kind of rule...only with a venomthroape...anyway he said that if a model is in the circle then yes you get your god damned cover! xD

 

[VanitusMalus]

I usually try and keep the rules decisions between my opponent and myself. I've noticed when you start allowing others to chime in their two cents you usually just get a big argument that then overshadows the game play. I've always said even before they made it a rule, if you don't agree and it's a friendly game just roll off. Unfortunately in a tournie it's all up to the judge, but anything else, friendly game in a store, home, basement, whatever just roll off and avoid the Know-It-All Monster which can be summoned in others when you say to your opponent "Lets get someone's opinion".

 

[SGMAlice]

@SGMAlice- no I do not trust you or those gw "officials" b/c you're wrong. Read it as written. If a rule should be used as intended then why not write it that way. It is dumb, but ya'll can play it wrong for all I care.

@bitsandkits- to be fair since they were playing a friendly game, the GW worker probably gave them more of an opinion of what he/she thought was right.

Someone hasn't had their warm milk and cookies today!.... :shok:
Its just a turn of phrase my friend, not a gun point request. The KFF Rule has been a point of contention for a long time now and everyone i have ever played has agreed with me. But thats just those i have played, not everyone in the known (And possibly unknown) Universe.

Try not to get so angry k:

SGMAlice

 

[VanitusMalus]

It is only a forum :so_happy:

I remember in 3rd edition when you could run a Burna Boyz unit with Mekboy with a KFF and I surrounded the unit with a 30 Boy mob unit :shok: because all the models had to be within the 6" to get the save. Note I no longer use the KFF (rather have the SAG ). Now it seems that the rules for cover state 50% of the unit and the KFF (eventhough it's written in 4th Ed language) states any unit within 6" so you can either go with a model from the unit is within 6" they get the save OR half the unit is within 6" they get the save, but it's no longer about individual models.

Also remember in 5th Ed the owning player chooses who bites the dust, so even if that one model or half the unit is in cover he can still choose any one of the models to die.

 

[GrimzagGorwazza]

But thats just those i have played, not everyone in the known (And possibly unknown) Universe.

hmm i wonder if this mean the roswell grey might play warhammer.....i wonder what they decided the rules for KFF meant.