Angels of Darkness V Fallen Angels (spoilers)

2803 Views 15 Replies 12 Participants Last post by ckcrawford, Jul 27, 2010

mal310

Discussion Starter · Jun 5, 2010

Just finished Angles of Darkness. I enjoyed it, but reading it has annoyed me. Fallen Angles (which I dislike even more now) and Angels of Darkness hardly match up to say the least! Honestly, did Mike Lee even bother to read this before starting his book?? I know that authors have their own take on events and I understand this. But the two books each have fundamental and completely different histories for the Dark Angles. These are not minor discrepancies around the periphery but themes central to the Legions identity. AOD suggests that Luther was loyal (as does the opening blurb of Decent of Angels) but in FA he clearly was not. Astelan’s portrayal in FA is farcical to say the least and the whole thing seems a total mess.
I really enjoy Black Libraries work but I have to hold them responsible for this shambles. It’s easy to say “oh Astelan was just lying” but that is a cop out as AOD seemed to be all about why Astelan was not lying and in fact telling the truth.
The issue around the Lion’s fence sitting has clearly not been resolved and this could still go either way. Personally I would like to see Gav Thrope write the next Horus Heresy Dark Angles book and for the Lion to be a treacherous fence sitter.

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darkreever

· #9 · Jul 24, 2010

I'm sorry but what?!

mal310 said:
Just finished Angles of Darkness. I enjoyed it, but reading it has annoyed me. Fallen Angles (which I dislike even more now) and Angels of Darkness hardly match up to say the least!

And so what? They are written by two different authors at two different points in time. Its no wonder they do not match up, theres no reason they should be.

mal310 said:
Honestly, did Mike Lee even bother to read this before starting his book??

Now for this bit, I am going to quote ADB because he said it best:

Dead.Blue.Clown said:
Ultimately, no author is beholden to another: you don't need to base anything off someone else's ideas, especially if you think their ideas are awful. The exception here is the Horus Heresy series, where it's a linked series of novels planned together. But there's nothing to say Ultramarine Book X must reference Graham's work, or whatever.

This is true of these novels; Mike Lee does not have to write his story and make it fit in perfectly with whats written in Angels of Darkness.

mal310 said:
I know that authors have their own take on events and I understand this. But the two books each have fundamental and completely different histories for the Dark Angles.

And there is nothing wrong with that, to quote ADB again for what was absolutely perfect:

Dead.Blue.Clown said:
Now, I'm of the mind that we should tie stuff together, and I respect the people I work with, which is why (for example) you see tips of the cowboy hat to Si Spurrier's work in the old Night Lords novel.

But it's not a perfect system. A lot of these novels are written by different people at the same time, who do not know each other, and who cannot (literally, it's just not realistically feasible) have contact with each other regarding every aspect of continuity.

I can give you an example off the bat: the Word Bearer trilogy that was just finished with Dark Creed mentions how all Terran-born Word Bearers were killed in the Heresy. Well, that doesn't happen in The First Heretic. In fact, it's unlikely to happen at all in the entire Horus Heresy. It just doesn't fit in with what's being told - at least not so far.

Now, some people will look at that and say The First Heretic (and any other author dealing with the Word Bearers) are wrong, because Dark Creed came out several months before the others. They will say it was bad research, or an intentional disregard, or whatever else. Others will say it retcons the Brotherhood concept, and deletes it.

The truth is, The First Heretic was half-finished by the time Dark Creed was released, and its entire storyline was already approved by editorial, approved by the Horus Heresy team, contracted, and well underway. It's not an intentional slight, nor is it bad research. But it is a contradiction. If you go on the popularity approach, The First Heretic and the Horus Heresy series will almost certainly be considered "more correct" because so many more people will read that series and see that perspective, and the HH series is overseen directly by BL's top authors and the intellectual property manager of Game Workshop.

Now in this case, people are actually more inclined to want to go with Angels of Darkness being more correct.

mal310 said:
AOD suggests that Luther was loyal (as does the opening blurb of Decent of Angels) but in FA he clearly was not. Astelan’s portrayal in FA is farcical to say the least and the whole thing seems a total mess.

And so what? Perhaps after all that time, Astelan became slightly delusional? Its not impossible that over time even the story behind something you are passionate about warps, maybe because its just to hard for you to accept the actual truth. Maybe deep down your really evil.

mal310 said:
I really enjoy Black Libraries work but I have to hold them responsible for this shambles.

What shambles? Mike Lee has done nothing wrong here; he can reference, tip his hat, or use characters established elsewhere as they were in those novels if he wants to. Or he does not have to, its his choice as the author who was asked to write for that particular series.

Now I quoted most of a post (post 45 here) so I will finish by quoting the last of it:

Dead.Blue.Clown said:
Some people will say the Heresy series can ignore whatever it likes, and that only those novels have the authority to state what went on back then. Others will say, I'm sure, the Heresy series is purposefully out to retcon previous work.

Now, to 99.8% of readers, it won't matter at all. Even to those who have read both. But you watch - there'll always be a few that act like this is some grievous transgression against the natural order, and assign malicious ideas behind it all.

In this case, looks like some of you here make up the .2%

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