Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The universal special rule "and they shall know no fear" state that spacemarines can regroup automatically even if below 50% as long as no enemy is within 6. When a unit consolidates it may move up to 3 but then counts as having moved for purposes of shooting. However the "and they shall no no fear" states that models with this rule are not affected by this and (my interpretation) counts as not having moved for purposes of shooting even where they have consolidated.

My question for clarification is this (it came up during a game recently) :

If a tactical squad fails its morale test and retreats only to rally the next turn and consolidate 3 into cover, may the heavy weapons trooper then fire as if he had been stationary? My answer is yes, as per the special rule "and they shall no no fear. I'm however open to different interpretations (if it is really,really convincing :wink: )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
I'm pretty sure that's how it works, yes.
 

·
Porn King!!!
Joined
·
8,137 Posts
The answer is yes as the marines regroup AT THE END OF THE TURN, not in the beginning like other armies. Normally the regroup counts as movement but as they have already regrouped prior to the movement phase, they don't have to worry about this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,822 Posts
The Wraithlord said:
The answer is yes as the marines regroup AT THE END OF THE TURN, not in the beginning like other armies. Normally the regroup counts as movement but as they have already regrouped prior to the movement phase, they don't have to worry about this.
Ummm, no, they rally at the beginning of the turn just like everyone else. Nothing in ATSKNF says anything about changing the sequence of events. What it does say is that if they rally with ATSKNF, they do not count as having moved. Which wouldn't need to be there if they did as you suggest and rallied at the end of the turn.
 

·
Porn King!!!
Joined
·
8,137 Posts
Heh so it is. I don't actually play SM's so I was going by how it is played by everyone around here. I was right about the not counting as movement part though lol.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
6,544 Posts
The point is that they rally out of sequence, so when their movement phase comes up, they're already rallied and haven't moved. The obvious exception would be if there is an enemy within 6'' after their initial fallback, in which case they'd still be falling back since no one, not even Space Marines, can rally within 6'' of an enemy model. They do NOT, however, rally once an enemy model is out of 6'' unless they've fled past that distance. Your opponent moving out of the way should leave them broken still, and they'll automatically rally in their movement phase as normal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
The Son of Horus said:
The point is that they rally out of sequence.
No, they don't. They try (and will always succeed if no enemys are with in 6") to rally at the start of their movement phase as all units do.

But I am not clear about the strange things that happens when they rally, first they get a free consolidation move and then they still won't count as moving is this right?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
6,544 Posts
That'd be right, then. Consolidation isn't considered "movement" per se.

Incidentally, if they DO rally at the start of their movement phase, it's possible to rout them, albeit extremely difficult and requiring very specific circumstances. Follow me on this one.

You have a unit that breaks Space Marines in close combat and fails to catch them (or chooses to consolidate rather than pursue.) The Space Marines fall back however fall they far back. Another unit wipes out a different Space Marine unit in close combat and is able to pursue or consolidate into the broken unit. The broken unit would then follow the rules for being engaged in combat while broken, which would mean they would take a leadership test, and if it was failed, be run down. That's not covered by ATSKNF, although I suppose it's possible that faliure could also be interpreted as being outnumbered and caught as a fearless unit in close combat, as Space Marines are when they're caught by a sweeping advance. I'd be inclined to think they'd be routed in that particular situation, though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
If a SM unit is assaulted while falling back they will regroup automatically.
My reason for beliving this beeing that every unit that gets assaulted while falling back get to test to regroup even if normally they woulden't.

And as SM always succeed when they get to test to regroup, it won't be a problem and they fight as nornal.

Therfore your senario wont work.
So the only fail safe way to use the ATSKNF against a falling back SM unit is to persue them and never let them out of the <6" range ;)
But that is easier said then done.

Fun sideeffect form RAW and how the ATSKNF is writen is that it is only marines that could benefit from the universal special rule ATSKNF as the text only referes to Space marines in the text.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
566 Posts
According to my brothers SM codex TSKNF means they can choose to fail morale checks & are immune to sweeping advances although if they retreat they suffer wounds equal to the amount of wounds they lost the combat by in addition to aformentioned effects
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,864 Posts
They can't choose to fail morale checks. They can wish to do so after a combat as per the combat tactics rule but never as a result from a shooting attack or a psychic power. However the part about not being sweeping advanced is correct.

To my knowledge the only for any marine unit to choose whether to pass and fail any leadership based check is if Marneus Calgar is chosen as the army commander.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
854 Posts
He mixed up rules. They can choose to fail checks with the "Combat Tactics" Special Rule, which is meant to let them fail and fall back from shooting and then auto-regroup with ATSKNF, representing their disciplined tactics. Gamewise advantages include dodging enemy assaults if they shoot enough to force a morale test prior to charging, disengaging from combats which you can't win at a small cost if you are caught, and no cost at all against terminators, and falling back to be able to shoot/rapid fire enemy units instead of engaging in combat.

EDIT: laggy computer, I didn't see the above post. However, they may fail ANY morale check they are called upon to make.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top