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Discussion Starter #1
Figured someone had to start one.
First of some clarification, a tactics thread discusses the army, it's many units, what they can do, their 'worth', etc.

An Army List is an Army List- no matter how pretty you dress it up, it is in no way, shape or form a Tactica. Still useful though.


Anyway the following will be a brief explanation of what I've found works in the Witch Hunters Codex and what doesn't. This is my opinion, others may disagree with it completely- but please no 'knee-jerk' 'Repentia are awesome' responses. If you think differently post in this thread with actual tactics to use said stuff.

Mech or Footslog

There are two ways to play Sisters, relatively large horde on foot, or relatively small force all mounted in transports.

To me 4th is about mobility and shooting. A footslogging Sisters force has very little of either. Something about an army with mainly 12" range (meltaguns, flamers) or less tells me they need to get close fast- and faster than walking.

So IMO Mech Sisters is by far the better choice. Footsloggers will always be at the mercy of the opponent- who will inevitably be faster and so can isolate and outflank Sisters units.

The Useful Stuff

Canoness- The 2+ save jump pack canoness is one of the few truly powerful things in the Sisters army. (If you haven't realised Sisters are on the lower rungs of the competitive ladder, a boot above Orks- then perhaps you should sit down and get over the shock).
Sisters do not want to be in combat, yet they must get within 12"/flamer range to be effective.
Inevitably the enemy will have a close combat monster or scary thing coming your way.

The Canoness acts as a tarpit to hold up said unit for much of the game. With Book for Ld 10 tests and Faith for 2+ Invulnerable saves.

If your filthy take 2 Canonesses.

Exorcist- This is your only anti-tank that can reach further than 12"- think about that. And that can move and shoot. So 2, if your filthy 3.
Personally I find Retributors don't fit into a Mech list. Either their LOS if blocked by transports, or they can see and be seen by the enemies anti-infantry which would only have them as a target- not good.

Rhino's/Immolators- Purely for the purpose of being Mech. Getting your Sisters into that crucial 12" range quickly and unharmed.
Of course this is Sisters, not Space Marines, so rather than just pay less to Drop Pod in without worry or thought- your gonna have to work your butt off to get there.
Always try to use cover to have the minimum number of Rhino's visible. That way you can leap frog the Smoked Rhino to the front- yep Smoke and Extra Armour are mandatory.
I could elaborate on Rhino usage but learning to's half the fun and I'm mean. Shocking how rare it is to find people who've done more than a cursory glance at the transport rules- because admittedly they are coffins, woefully nerfed to extreme as punishment for 3rd Ed. Yet the Sisters don't have Infiltrate, or Deep Strike, or Drop Pods and so have no choice (Walking=death).

Celestians- To me they are the best infantry unit in the Sisters army, I seem alone in this belief. I always hear good things about Seraphim but they have always failed me miserably (and no I am not stupid when using them either).
For 2pts more a Celestian gets WS 4 (so Marines hit on 4's not 3's), I 4 (so hit at same time not after Marines), Preferred Enemy Everyone (so hit Marines on 3's not 4's), choice of squads smaller than 10 (so 6 for Spirit of the Matyr resilience), all Faithful (so no sniping of the Faithful VSS).

Much like the Canonesses they can charge into the enemies close combat gribblies and hold them up for the game (with a VSS wielding Eviscerator), but can also put out some serious firepower (I prefer 2 Meltaguns) in the meantime.

Battle Sisters- You have to take some, and why complain- they are good 1pt over Storm Troopers for Bolters instead of Hellguns, Power armour instead of Carapace.....where's the catch?

Well, where to start. They 10+ not 5+, so your investing a lot more pts on bodies. Would people complain about Storm Troopers being 10+?
Plasmaguns, lack of them- one of the reasons Sisters are considered very short ranged. Would people complain if Storm Troopers could have only storm bolters :roll: instead of plasmaguns?
No Infiltrate/Deep Strike.

Still, the large number allows the use of Divine Guidance so make use of this by including at least one flame template per squad.

Callidus- she's a Sister, honest- :lol:

The Misses

Repentia- Top of the flop list. Perhaps in the entire game. So much wrong- want me to list? Really?

T 3, Armour 4+- around 20pts. A single heavy bolter can cut down 2-3 a turn on average- claiming 40-60pts a go. Easy VP's is an understatement.

Vying with Celestians and Callidus for Elites- no contest.

Cannot be transported ever- they must walk...

Attacks 1 with Eviscerator- so if you do manage to get them into combat, they have a few Str 6 attacks going last. I predict there won't be any left to swing- what a waste.

Multi-meltas- In theory, the Sisters answer to lascannons. In practice a very expensive missile launcher without the frag option and half the range.

Storm Bolters- Our answer to plasmagun, enough said?

Dominions- Battle Sisters with overpriced guns...woot.

As you can see IMO only the Repentia need an overhaul. Everything else is pts adjustments, tweeks, etc. I am of the belief that Sisters are one of the most balanced army lists- they can be powerful but you have to work your ass of for every win.

Faith

So you've got an army of overpriced Storm Troopers with almost no weaponry over 12" and very little offensive combat ability? Why would it ever do well?
Faith compensates.

You need two really.

Spirit of the Matyr- Invulnerable save, the Faith roll requires small numbers- so 6x squads are ideal- cough, Celestians/Seraphim, cough.

Divine Guidance- the second best, Ap 1 wounds on a 6. Requires large numbers, so squads of 10x are great- cue Battle Sisters.


The Passion? +2 Initiative. Small numbers. Not really worth it since most of your combat power is in Eviscerators.

Hand of the Emperor? +2 Str, go last. Large numbers. Only use to get Str 8 Eviscerators (go last anyway), to insta-kill those pesky SM characters.

Light of the Emperor? Fearless, Small Numbers. Unmodifiable Ld 10 should be sufficient. Light is only a last resort if someone does run- to get them to regroup.

Got to go, feel free to add your own Tactical advice on Sisters. But remember- Army List does not equal Tactica.
 

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Just to add weight, the tarpit tactic definately works. I've had lord splatty[khorne glaice dp] tied up for the whole game before by a large squad with invun saves and ld10.
 

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jigplums said:
Just to add weight, the tarpit tactic definately works. I've had lord splatty[khorne glaice dp] tied up for the whole game before by a large squad with invun saves and ld10.
The tarpit tactic definitely is a viable tactic; however you have to be careful as some enemy units can ignore those invulnerable saves. The unit that springs to mind straight away is a statured dreadaxe prince.
 

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Nice little tactica Si, short but sweet! :D
Again as metioned I think the sisters ability to hold up some of the nastiest combat units Is one of their biggest strenghs, while adding In Eviscerators at ST8 they can become quite fruity In combat If used correctly.
My DC are testament to the fact! :oops:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The tarpit tactic definitely is a viable tactic; however you have to be careful as some enemy units can ignore those invulnerable saves. The unit that springs to mind straight away is a statured dreadaxe prince.
Thankfully, mercifully few. And even less that are good options.

The Dreadaxe DP is number one enemy- to counter I suggest crying in a corner until your opponent forfeits in disgust.

C'tan- why would you charge such a thing? Or get within 12"?

Necron Lord with Scythe- tricky, but rare.

Pariahs- Lol, ever seen any?

Any others?

Callidus of course but she works for us, and its against tournament policy to have more than one Witch Hunters army at a time.

My DC are testament to the fact!
I knew that if they got the charge the sheer weight of Str 5 re-rolled attacks would butcher the 6xman Celestian squads with or without Matyr- and they did. Then the rest of my army pitched in to finish them.

I was hoping for the Callidus to show up, it could then position to charge the Chaplain and hopefully slice him up. Then leap out of combat with the DC every turn and hold them indefinitely- in theory of course.

The problem being that whilst my entire army struggles to take down the DC- you have a 1400pts army dancing around.

Bah, Sisters are on the lower tier of armies- I knew that going in, :(
 

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Fairly good article, but I have some counter points.

1. Repentia are good IF you take a unit of arco flagellents to run in front of them.

2. Arco flagellents are good if you take 2-3 Penitent engines to lead them.

Marches up the table like this:

----------------unit of repentia-----------------------------
----------------Unit of Arco-Flagellents--------------------
---------------Penitent engines---------------------------

3. Dominion squad is awesome. You equip them all with meltaguns and place them in an immolator equipped with a twin linked multi melta. Drive the immolator up the board. Have the domnion squad get out. The immolator bakes one tank and they bake another. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
We're probably going to have to agree to disagree on that Pathwinder :lol:

For a start Arco's and Penitents aren't Sisters of Battle...but then neither is a Callidus so I'll have to consider them.

It just seems to me like compounding the problem-

Repentia are rubbish, so I'll hide them behind several units of slightly less rubbish Arco's, which will hide behind 2-3 weak walkers.

Marching up the board? Does the opponent have no firepower? If you've invested in all these units I doubt you'll have much else to threaten them with.

AV 11 Open-topped Walkers with a death wish (i.e. eagerness to run forward into LOS) are not tricky to take down.

But who knows perhaps it is so unexpected that it does work under shock value- but I doubt it.

As for the Dominions- running up the board again? Do your opponents not own any ranged weaponry?
I think it's overkill TBH. If 2 can't manage it, 4 won't. And a twin-linked multi-melta on AV 11 is a tasty target.
 

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I was hoping for the Callidus to show up, it could then position to charge the Chaplain and hopefully slice him up. Then leap out of combat with the DC every turn and hold them indefinitely- in theory of course.
We can always get an early game In If you want over the next couple of weeks If you want to re-test your theory!

The problem being that whilst my entire army struggles to take down the DC- you have a 1400pts army dancing around.
I take It that Includes the so-called extra 'free' 100pts :wink:

Have to agree with Jeridian on the repentia, would be a far more viable choice If you could faith up their save, as Is there Just easy VP's. :cry:
Don't think arco's are too bad, problem Is you don't really have much control over them, shielding them with other units Is fine but If you don't want to advance and be agressive but the arco's do there going to be stuck pis*ing In the wind.
 

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Jeridian said:
We're probably going to have to agree to disagree on that Pathwinder :lol:

For a start Arco's and Penitents aren't Sisters of Battle...but then neither is a Callidus so I'll have to consider them.

It just seems to me like compounding the problem-

Repentia are rubbish, so I'll hide them behind several units of slightly less rubbish Arco's, which will hide behind 2-3 weak walkers.

Marching up the board? Does the opponent have no firepower? If you've invested in all these units I doubt you'll have much else to threaten them with.

AV 11 Open-topped Walkers with a death wish (i.e. eagerness to run forward into LOS) are not tricky to take down.

But who knows perhaps it is so unexpected that it does work under shock value- but I doubt it.

As for the Dominions- running up the board again? Do your opponents not own any ranged weaponry?
I think it's overkill TBH. If 2 can't manage it, 4 won't. And a twin-linked multi-melta on AV 11 is a tasty target.
You make good points but the army also has 2 exorcists, a priest, a canoness, and 2 units of sisters in rhinos. I like to give my opponent a damned if you do, damned if you don't army. Either they concentrate on the sisters units OR they concentrate on the close combat units. I'll post an army list in the army lists section so you can see what I mean.
 

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I agree with most of the points that have been said. repentia are useless definite overhaul ( pity thier stats arn't as good as the models). The one thing as well that hasn't been discussed & thats the battle field. In cities of death or a battlefield that has loads of cover a witch hunters can really excel especially seraphim & domminion squads in immolators, retributors with 4 hvy bolters are ok against tau & guard. But in a battlefield with hardly no cover you have to go mech with smoke & ea & hope & pray you can get into that 12" range before you loose your transports. I tend to run a regular size sq in rhino, celestians in rhino & a large 15 woman sq. this takes some heat off the transports & exorcists imho.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The only time I'd ever leave the Rhino's at home is a Cityfight. True that keeping one or two can close off entire streets to the enemy firepower but the Tank Traps Stratagem means with a smart opponent you'll never leave your deployment quarter.

Without Infiltrate or Deep Strike, and with the transports woefully bogged down the Sisters need another way around the board- they need to get their feet wet, Sewer Rats.

Be careful not to put your whole army down the Sewer, as a cunning opponent will just sit on all the man holes for you to never show up. I've found it best to put just 1-2 tough units down there (Celestians are my choice, yes I am a Celestian fanboy) that can show up behind the enemy during the game, whilst most of your army can hold it's own on foot.

Important Note: My Tactica was generally aimed at the 1500pts mark as it's the usual size game here and at tournaments.
 

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Few points from me:

1) Repentia do indeed suck and urgently need an overhaul. I have never seen any reason to take them

2) Dominions are a great unit if used correctly. Put them in an Immolater with the flamer mount, run it up 12" and fire with the flamer and 4 meltaguns. EA/Smoke mandatory but the mobility of the unit combined with the sheer hitting power of the meltas should not be underestimated.

3) Penitents absolutely rock! If you are going with a Mech list, Penitents really shine as they can have LOS to them blocked by the rhinos. Don't forget that both Rhinos/Immolaters and Penitents are all size 3 vehicles which mean that you position the Penitents as close to the enemy as possible and use the Rhinos as a moving wall in front of them. Your Rhinos are going to take any more fire than before when it gets down to it and when those Penitents slam into the enemy lines the ensuing havoc is a joy to behold. Again, another unit that is not to be underestimated if used correctly.
 

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I'm gonna add my bit about Seraphim as no-one else has said anything.

I have found that most opponents think they are more dangerous than they are (as indeed they do with most things in the WH armoury :p )

The major thing to remember is they are not assault marines. Heck, they are not even great assault troops. What they are however, is a good harassing/mop-up or tarpit unit.

I usually run them as 6 or 8 girl with 2 flamers and vet with eviscerator and book. Unit size of 6 or 8 is of course there for spirit. 8 is a bit high normally, but thankfully the superior auto gets the simulcrum imperialis.

The obvious route for them is to tie up an enemy unit and then jump out. I have found this to be pretty good for either a unit of standard guys or small, elite units. never try to tarpit a big unit, or something like the death company. The sheer number of attacks and your T3 means you will lose too many girls to normal attacks. Much better to use them against things like obliterators or daemon princes!

If you run a flying cannoness (who doesn't) it is worth noting NEVER join her to the seraphim otherwise you lose your hit and run. Also on that note, no matter how good an option it looks, using hit and run at the end of your turn is almost always a bad idea, trust me.

I run the hand flamers for cheeky divine guidance to get AP1 flamer hits. Again, this isn't reliable enough to count on but the fear of it is a good tool.

I've never tried inferno pistols so won't comment on them at all. Although, don't forget you have krak grenades as standard so don't be forget to use them when you go after tanks with the eviscerator.

A quick note on Books of St Lucius. Normally I don't give these out like sweets as others do for fluff reasons. However, I did get sick of my seraphim continually failing morale checks and added one to my unit. Still makes me feel dirty though :p


Well, that was a bit of a ramble wasn't it! I'll look at it tonight and see if I can edit it down for you!
 

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I have found that seraphim are great tankhunters when armed with meltabombs. I normally run mine at 8 with flamers the same as you Barney. Though i'm thinking that i might put inferno pistols in stead for extra tank hunting shots as i've had great success with my cannoness in this way, the only thing that puts me off is the range on the inferno pistol.
 

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Raziel said:
I have found that seraphim are great tankhunters when armed with meltabombs. I normally run mine at 8 with flamers the same as you Barney. Though i'm thinking that i might put inferno pistols in stead for extra tank hunting shots as i've had great success with my cannoness in this way, the only thing that puts me off is the range on the inferno pistol.
I agree here. I used to use Seraphim with both Inferno pistols and meltabombs and no tank ever lived through it, be it from the shooting or the bombs. They can be a bit difficult to manoeuver into postion but once done, you are almost guranteed to kill anything beyond a Monolith.
 

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The Wraithlord said:
I agree here. I used to use Seraphim with both Inferno pistols and meltabombs and no tank ever lived through it, be it from the shooting or the bombs. They can be a bit difficult to manoeuver into postion but once done, you are almost guranteed to kill anything beyond a Monolith.
You said it. On the other side of the table I have my canoness do the same thing. That's two flying tank hunting units. :D
 

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Penitents really shine as they can have LOS to them blocked by the rhinos. Don't forget that both Rhinos/Immolaters and Penitents are all size 3 vehicles which mean that you position the Penitents as close to the enemy as possible and use the Rhinos as a moving wall in front of them.
No, you can't. I suggest you re-read the rules on LOS. You'll find that you can still draw a models eye view over vehicles as only area terrain and close combat block LOS based on size categories. Those Penitents can still be seen over the rhino's, they'll just get the chance of being obscured.
 

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Ahh crap that is right.


*scratches head while looking about in a daze of confusion
 

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Discussion Starter #20
When something as simple and abhorrent as adding a large 'sail' to the top of your Rhino's is your only way of shielding vehicles behind them....there's something wrong with the rules.
 
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