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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone else think Amon, Haedo or both could be the unlucky custodes who run onto the bridge and get annhilated by Horus during the final battle with the Emperor? I can see it happening to give the death a little more effect for us readers as dont know about evryone else but i quite like Amon and we already know its cant be Valdor
 

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A qoute from someone involved with the HH series (wether it was a GW or BL honcho, I don't know) was that we only thought that we knew what happened at the climax of the HH. This suggests that many things could change, or maybe only a few, but very important, things.
We know that Emperor will kill Horus. Maybe, however, they'll take the fluff back to an earlier version an re-instate Olianus Pius, the Guardsman who died by Horus' hand who was replaced, in later fluff, by a nameless Custodes.
I don't doubt there will be a load of complaining at any change/percieved change in the fluff, but I'm excited to see what is going to happen that we don't know about! One thing I do like though, is that the last person Horus kills, the act the clears the Emperor's mind, is nameless. It shows that, in the end, Horus is acting for himself, whereas, whatever his methods may seem to show, the Emperor really is thinking about the vast billions of people out there in the galaxy; why else would he be so incensed by the death of someone so anonymous when his son, Sanguinius is lying dead by Horus' hand?

GFP
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
He didn't see Sanguinius death, didn't know how the fight panned out and how brutal it actually was. When lone Guardsman/Imperial Fist/Custode runs in and Horus destroys him with a look of enjoyment on his face is when the Emperor realises he truely isnt coming back. From a raders perspective a random running in wouldn't be moving as much as someone like Amon running in and getting so brutally killed. Over the series i've no doubt they will establish Amon a bit more, consumate survivor, likeable, loyal etc, i already like him as do several other readers i know and he's been in virtually none of it. To see a character like that or any established character getting killed in such a way will tug at you a little more than Joe Blogs
 

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Bane of Empires
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It shows that, in the end, Horus is acting for himself, whereas, whatever his methods may seem to show, the Emperor really is thinking about the vast billions of people out there in the galaxy.
Im with GFP on this one. The Emperor had already witnessed the corpse of Sanguinius lay at the feet of Horus, if that didn't incense him enough I can't see another personal character (like Amon) doing so.
 

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As Angel of Blood said though, the Emperor did not witness the death. It could stand as a proof to just how much he did not want to believe that Horus was gone, that he would have to kill him. But seeing the last victim so brutally killed, his flesh and bones and muscles flayed layer by layer, all the while with Horus smiling as he did so and all right in front of the Emperor. Thats a front row seat to witnessing your most loved and favoured son showing you he's gone and something worse stands before you.

Merely seeing the corpse of Sanguinius should have been enough for the Emperor to realize this, it should not have taken another death right in front of his eye(s). But then, the Emperor has been willingly blind and stupid to quite a few things when he should not have been.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Can't be Valdor, he's with the Space Wolves on Prospero, well on his way back with them anyway during the siege.

Like i said, as he didnt see Sanguinius death i can still seem him trying to rationalise it somehow, convincing himself Sanguinius attacked straight away and wouldnt hear him out or some crazy idea, but by seeing Horus commit that one act in person truely showed him how far his son had gone
 

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Bane of Empires
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Can't be Valdor, he's with the Space Wolves on Prospero, well on his way back with them anyway during the siege.
Although Valdor is also on Terra during Blood Games, which is set after the Burning of Prospero. :p
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
is it? wheres it reference that, i supose he has to be of course seeing as the Heresy is already in full swing by now, supose its still possible he hasnt RV'ed with the Wolves yet?

Havent read Tales of Heresy in a while so cant really remember if it mentions the rough time it is in place of the heresy
 

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Bane of Empires
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is it? wheres it reference that, i supose he has to be of course seeing as the Heresy is already in full swing by now, supose its still possible he hasnt RV'ed with the Wolves yet?

Havent read Tales of Heresy in a while so cant really remember if it mentions the rough time it is in place of the heresy
The Wolves were unleashed by the Emperor prior to Horus' rebellion becoming public and prior to Garro arriving in the Sol System with his tales of Isstvan III. Blood Games is set after this, when Horus' rebellion has become public. So Valdor is in two places at once, likely just a mistake by the authors/editors.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sure they will keep him with the Wolves, in the previous fluff he was always with them, severing Bjorns hand for one, and im sure hes been mentioned living past the Heresy
 

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The Emperor didn't need to see Sanguinius die to know what happened; they are father and son with a connection deeper than anything anyone merely human has ever felt. For Horus to kill his brother, he would have brought to bear power, focussed his mind and strength and turned to kill a fellow Primarch. The Emperor would have felt all of this, would already have seen in his mind what has happened; he can try to frame this as two of his sons, famously headstrong and stubborn, as fighting as only brothers can- one is fighting for his father, one fighting because he thinks his father is wrong. Horus is only mistaken, though, isn't he? Surely his father can find out what's wrong and ease his mind, say the right words and make it all right.
But, Horus is killing his father. The Emperor can't bring himself to do what needs to be done. He knows his son is sick, but Horus is the brightest and best, the future; the Emperor just has to hold on, the solution is there. And then, through the door through which the Emperor himself walked only minutes ago, a lone Astartes runs in (I'm sure it's an IF who comes in, rather than a Custodes; if it was a Custodes, the Emperor would know his name) and charges in to try to save his Emperor. What threat is he to Horus? None. Against a Primarch an Astartes could do naught; against one infused with the power of the chaos gods, such fury would be a breath in a supernova. Horus doesn't need to pay any attention, the IF is already dead, he just doesn't know it. Horus doesn't even look away from his dying father. He probably doesn't even register the non-threat visually at all. He could just bat the man away, but he doesn't. Instead he turns his power on him, flensing the flesh away layer by layer, pain and cruelty all as one. There is no point to this. There is no gain. And if Horus will do this to one who is no threat to him at all, what will he do to those who are not Astartes, even less of a threat? And so, even though he knows Horus killed his brother Sanguinius and is responsible for the deaths of billions of others, it is the death of this one man that finally breaks the spell that clouds the Emperor's mind. And he does what he always hoped he could avoid.

GFP
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
True and i understand that completely, and it was a IF (from a guardsman) but in the latest fluff they have changed it to a Custode, so the Emperor like you said is likely going to know him anyway, i just see it as being Amon or Haedo so that the reader can connect to it more aswell as the Emperor.
 

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I get where you're coming from, but I feel that, should it be a character that we, and the Emperor, know well (or at least better than many others), it will lose a lot of its impact. As it stands it is indicative of the difference in outlook between the Emperor and Horus.
Horus entire campaign is because he feels slighted- his vision from the chaos gods shows a future in which Horus is forgotten and unremarked; the whole for the HH basis is selfish.
The Emperor, however, does what he does to make sure that Humanity survives- nothing is allowed to get in the way of this goal, which gives the Emperor a well-deserved reputation for being ruthless; but he fights for the little person, not himself.
Anyway, I think I'm just repeating myself now, and no-one needs me to keep flogging this equine!

GFP
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Fair enough, good points all the same

With any result i imagine we will see Amon and Haedo(definetly Haedo i think for some reason) die during the heresy, whether its like i suspect or some other way
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Custodes. Amon being a particularly good Custode at that. Both feature primarily in Tales of Heresy and a very very minor role in Thousand Sons
 

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I personnaly think that it will either be Loken or Little Horus that Horus mind rapes for the Emperor to kill him, I think that Amon and Haedo will be close to Sigimund when he becomes the Emperors Champion
 
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